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#306267 - 04/06/18 05:24 PM Lying with Impunity
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16203
No, that is not a biblical reference to someone named Impunity...

Donald Trump is a notorious liar. In fact, lies more often than he tells the truth, at least in public. Many, many of his boldest lies are in the form of Tweets, most recently about Amazon and the Post Office. But prevarication does not stop at the top. Sarah Huckabee Sanders (and he predecessors and minions) are forced to lie at the podium for the President - or at least repeat his lies. Many, if not most, of his Cabinet Secretaries have been caught out in whoppers - Tom Price, Jeff Sessions, and Scott Pruitt most spectacularly, but Betsy DeVoss, Ben Carson... - and often under oath.

Indeed, it appears to be a standard practice of both the White House and many, many appointees and nominees. It is so pervasive, that they do it on big things and little things. Pruitt lied about using private e-mail to conduct government business; DeVoss claimed she was not part of he family's foundation, although she was listed as an officer for 17 years, not to mention all of the falsehoods she's uttered about education. Pruitt's prevarications are legendary, although they don't rival Trump's.

All of these lies take a toll: Trump’s Lies vs. Your Brain - Politico Magazine.
Quote:
Our brains are particularly ill-equipped to deal with lies when they come not singly but in a constant stream, and Trump, we know, lies constantly, about matters as serious as the election results and as trivial as the tiles at Mar-a-Lago. (According to his butler, Anthony Senecal, Trump once said the tiles in a nursery at the West Palm Beach club had been made by Walt Disney himself; when Senecal protested, Trump had a single response: “Who cares?”) When we are overwhelmed with false, or potentially false, statements, our brains pretty quickly become so overworked that we stop trying to sift through everything. It’s called cognitive load—our limited cognitive resources are overburdened. It doesn’t matter how implausible the statements are; throw out enough of them, and people will inevitably absorb some. Eventually, without quite realizing it, our brains just give up trying to figure out what is true.


This was the methodology employed by Russia in the 2016 campaign, but it is also employed by Trump (and his minions) on a constant basis, making it difficult to differentiate which disinformation campaign is at play. I think the only way to combat this effort is to confront it openly and make it have a cost. How to do so, I have not yet fully determined, but the goal should be to return honesty as a community value and make it have meaning.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306273 - 04/06/18 09:41 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
I just assume everything Trump says or tweets is a lie, and I'm right the majority of times. He wouldn't bother saying or tweeting it if it wasn't a lie.

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#306277 - 04/07/18 06:03 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I am not convinced that the jackass is actually lying. This would mean that he is consciously making a decision not to tell the truth. My problem with this is that I believe he is an ignoramus who, when he doesn't know something just makes it up! I also think that he has been doing that so long that most of it is thoughtless, knee jerks assholism and little else. I also found it interesting that he thought it was interesting that he actually brag on making up a story for the Canadian prime minister. I also think that, if and when he ever thinks on this stuff he is amazed that ANYBODY believes him!

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#306993 - 06/15/18 05:46 AM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16203
There is literally nothing, NOTHING, that Trump won't lie about. There appear to be only four rules in this White House/administration: Lie with impunity; never admit an error or apologize; anything Obama did is wrong (even if he didn't do it - see rule 1); always protect Trump (see rule 1). Laws don't matter. The truth is meaningless. The Constitution is non-existent. There is no such thing as shame or humility.

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#306994 - 06/15/18 04:09 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: jgw
I am not convinced that the jackass is actually lying. This would mean that he is consciously making a decision not to tell the truth. My problem with this is that I believe he is an ignoramus who, when he doesn't know something just makes it up!


At this point in his life, he's aware of the fact that it nevertheless brands him as a compulsive liar. But the point is, he doesn't care about that anyway.

Sociopathic behavior writ large.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306995 - 06/15/18 06:44 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6483
Loc: Highlands, Tx
He is a narcissist. It is a personality disorder .... a mental illness.

For the delusional world his mental illness has created for him, he is probably unaware what he says is a lie. In his world he is the greatest ,,,, he is the savior of America .... he is etc

For this reason almost anything he says when interviewed by SP Mueller will be useless information. Example: the size of the crowd ... not directly a lie (intentionally trying to deceive you or I) .... it is an exaggeration meant to enhance his own self image per his illness .... thus if apprised of actual numbers he would immediately respond by saying the numbers are lies, they are conspiratorially fabricated by liberals etc etc. and this is only a mild example of what SP Mueller would face.

The problem is obviously exacerbated by his ignorance. Apparently the only things he knows domestically is what Pres Obama did should be repealed or overturned and what do the evangelicals want. In the foreign relations arena, Mr Trump is being celebrated as a hero of the Russian peoples, meaning Putin.

Incredible
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306996 - 06/15/18 08:29 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: rporter314]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3821
Loc: Eugene, OR
Yet his fans continue to love him. Even adore him. And they would gladly appoint him Herr Fuhrer if they could. And then.. The Donald would bask in the glory he craves.

And “The Power” he absolutely desires. Or Deserves Depending...

Curious times indeed.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#306997 - 06/15/18 09:28 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: Ken Condon]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8867
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Perhaps it is not just Trump who is mentally ill?
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306998 - 06/15/18 10:40 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
No, it's normal human psychology to respond to gas-lighting by just ignoring the gas-lighter. Trump tells so many lies so consistently that most people just block him out. He's not a reliable source. Even the people who voted for him because they wanted change, wanted to burn the elites, and so forth say he is lying but they don't care.

But let's all face it: They did a very bad thing. Voting in a democracy (republic or popular) comes with a responsibility not to be frivolous, not to vote out of spite, to be thoughtful about who you vote for, to vote for the best leader for our country. And simplest of all, not sell out your country to Russia.

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#306999 - 06/16/18 12:56 AM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6483
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I hope you were not speaking for yourself. smile

I suspect a more likely explanation is a large chunk of citizens are poorly informed and easily manipulated. Imagine as alluded in a comment above, these folks voted for someone who would poke a finger in the eye of the "politician class" without regard for the consequences, up to and including destruction of the political and institutional fabric of a Constitutionally created federal government.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#307002 - 06/16/18 12:41 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8867
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
My hope, as well...

Quote:
The antidote to the process of propaganda is the process of finding factual truth. The best way we have for doing that is through scientific inquiry, which referees competing claims systematically based on evidence. The propagandist process subordinates the facts to an agenda, even at the price of distorting or ignoring the facts altogether. For science, factual truth is the agenda; it follows the evidence wherever it might lead. Anything counter-factual, anything that obscures or distorts truth is anathema to the scientific project. Propaganda knows how to sell a product. Science knows how to shop smart.
......

Hence, the biggest underlying problem with propaganda is not who is using it, but the extent to which it’s used to the diminishment or exclusion of reason, science, fact and truth. That is to say, if our camp wins by using propaganda, it will be no victory at all, because it means the people are gullible, and are vulnerable to the next skilled propagandist, who may well come from the other side. Only a people educated about the process of propaganda and adamant about not letting it override the processes of science will be truly civilized, liberated, and safe.

The Con of Propaganda
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#307003 - 06/16/18 08:55 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6483
Loc: Highlands, Tx
here is the fundamental problem LogT

Mr Trump has complete access of the media 24/7 (or at least that is his goal). A 30 sec soundbite once a day can not compete with his control of the media.

A whole host of media outlets have taken to task the dissemination of the facts to no avail. Mr Trump is winning solely because of an ignorant, uninformed electorate which is easily manipulated has been mobilized by his lies, demagoguery, bullying, and plain old 1930's gaslighting.

He is on the verge of pardoning everyone who may implicate him in criminal activities. The Senate will not convict. The DoJ will not file charges for any potential crimes. There is only one course of action ...
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#307004 - 06/16/18 10:13 PM Re: Lying with Impunity [Re: logtroll]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 353
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Perhaps it is not just Trump who is mentally ill?

A very good point.

Just as the minds of most of the German people were warped by the barrage of lies they were told by their "leaders" and media, so, to an even greater extent, the minds of the American people are warped by the ceaseless Niagara of lies and misinformation which the info-tainment industry uses to wash away what is left of the minds of Americans.
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

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