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#305767 - 02/25/18 08:47 PM Gun Control
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2093
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
This morning I listened to the blather about gun control. As far as I can tell one side says that any gun control will take away their second amendment right and the other side says, no, we just want controls on guns.

Both sides are just wrong.

First those against gun control.
Their claim that it threatens their second amendment right is just flat out wrong and demonstrably wrong. Nobody is suggesting taking away all the guns, only that they want gov to exercise its constitutional right to regulate as stated in the first 3 words of the second amendment, ie. "a well regulated militia".

Second, those who are for gun control.
They are wrong in even sitting down with those against as their argument has more to do with fear than fact.

I believe the actual arguments about gun control should be about the degree of regulation and the reasons thereof. Its that simple (in my own mind). All the rest, is just plain blather promulgated by the media in their ongoing efforts to gain viewers irregardless of the damage they do in that regard (which I feel to be real and defined).

The gun arguments are now in the forefront (well, after Lying Jackass distraction) and are all about gun violence. The facts, I think, are VERY clear. Every other civilized nation on the face of the earth controls guns in their society to one degree or another. Every other civilized nation on the face of the earth does not have the degree of gun violence of that experienced by the United States of America. We are actually considered to be a very dangerous place by the other nations of the earth.

The simple fact is that the basic difference, between the United States, and the rest of the world, is one single thing - GUN CONTROL! That's it! Any arguments to the contrary have been disproved over and over again - Gun Control=less gun violence. I find it very strange that there can even be argument over this and the only reason, I can see for this, is the media entertaining a false offering of both sides as that means they are supporting fact and fiction (the two sides). If media had any integrity they would not allow fiction to be passed off as fact to an obviously, and incredibly, ignorant American public.

The fiction side, I should add, has done a REALLY great job of making their side somehow non-fiction without really proving anything at all, except for their incredible skill at bullsh*t.

So, again, if we want to have a serious discussion about gun control it should be about degree of regulation and not about regulation and no regulation.

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#305769 - 02/26/18 12:53 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7879
Loc: North San Diego County
We already have all sorts of gun regulations and almost everybody operates within them. EG. Hardly anybody has a fully automatic weapon outside of law enforcement and the military. Almost nobody saws off their shotgun barrel, when it means prison time. So we have not had "no regulation" since the 1920's. So the "any law violates the 2nd Amendment" argument is pure BS.

My solution doesn't interfere with any qualified person's right to own a gun for defense of their home. Everybody seems to agreed that certain classes of people should not own guns, but the NRA (which says they agree!) fights every attempt to implement this.

So, end this problem in just four easy steps.

1) Get rid of politicians who are owned and operated by the NRA.
2) Register all guns of every type, so government knows where they are.
3) Make it mandatory to report all criminals, domestic abusers, mentally disturbed people, users of anti-depressants, people who have threatened murder or suicide, etc. to the existing federal database.
4) Send police to pick up the guns of people on both lists.

Sure gun nuts will freak out over #2, because "the government can take our guns away if they know where they are". Exactly right, and the government SHOULD take guns away from people who shouldn't have them. They can't do their job of "ensuring domestic tranquility" if they don't have this list. And any gun owner especially upset about this would probably qualify for a place on list #3!

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#305770 - 02/26/18 02:51 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13265
Loc: Whittier, California
Let the politicians coin a phrase for it, a republic in which citizens are born with the 2A rights inherent, upon adulthood.
There still exist limitations which ordinary citizens can get over if they are qualified, but the basic right to 2A self defense is guaranteed, unless and until the citizen misuses or abuses that right.
Then their rights start to be restricted, based on the severity of the issue. If it's any kind of violent behavior, it must be reviewed.
We already put people on a NO FLY list if their activities or conduct alerts authorities. We can argue as to the manner in which they operate however it is awfully tough to challenge their right to do their job.
Sometimes it's possible to get taken off the NO FLY LIST.

No reason we can't compile a database that operates in similar fashion.

I don't know what you'd call that system but as I said, let the politicians coin a phrase for it because I guarantee you the gun crowd WILL coin a phrase for it.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305771 - 02/26/18 02:55 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13265
Loc: Whittier, California
Once a standard for appropriate USE is established, anything outside of that standard becomes misuse and abuse.
Making threats, verbal, via print, via telephone or internet, to use a gun in a violent manner invokes abuse of your 2A right, and therefore amounts to points in the abuse column.
Zero points in the abuse column, your 2A rights stay intact, enough points in the abuse column, your 2A rights begin to be restricted.
Too MANY points in the abuse column, you lose your 2A rights altogether. Your ID or driver's license receives a mark on it that tells gun dealers that you are not allowed to purchase guns or ammunition.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305775 - 02/26/18 06:57 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14194
Loc: Florida

Laudable, Jefferey, but first let's see if we can just get a moratorium on the sales of assault type rifles...

What that alone would do might be remarkable. They would immediately become "collector's items" since the manufacturing would cease. After a time, they'd disappear off the streets completely and angry young men would have a harder time getting their hands on military style weaponry.
Firearm fetish fashonistas will find something else to hold against their cheek as they masturbate to firearm fantasies.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#305777 - 02/26/18 08:29 PM Re: Gun Control [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7879
Loc: North San Diego County
Just getting rid of assault rifles doesn't fix the problem. Some mass shooters have just used pistols with multiple clips. Changing clips just takes a second if you don't mind dropping the spent one.

It's a lot easier to restrict the people, not the guns, because everybody says they agree that certain people should not have guns. Once you create a mechanism for that, you can rachet it up to include as many classes of people as are necessary.

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#305779 - 02/27/18 12:37 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14194
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Just getting rid of assault rifles doesn't fix the problem. Some mass shooters have just used pistols with multiple clips.
No, but it goes a long way in getting this particularly deadly weapon out of the hands of everyday mass shooters. Pistols are harder to hit sh*t with, have a shorter range, slower firing rate, and smaller clips. Bulletproof vests and backpacks will stop a pistol bullet. AR-15 blows right through them. Limit these guys to pistols for their short range work and we'd definitely see fewer casualties.
Couple that with effective background checks with lots of caveats and we might see things improve a bit.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#305782 - 02/27/18 03:29 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: jgw]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
So, how many of the Ar-15 owners have been well regulated? How/where/when does this "regulation" occur?

I guess it is the federal government's responsibility to regulate them.

Wait! If they are to be regulated, there must be rules. It's in the Constitution! Let there be rules. Lots of them!

Bailiff, whack their ...(cheech and Chong, anybody? Anybody?)


Edited by Spag-hetti (02/27/18 04:20 AM)
Edit Reason: my memory flashed to the future
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#305784 - 02/27/18 04:02 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: Spag-hetti]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6481
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
I guess it is the federal government's responsibility to regulate them.

I think if you re-read the 2nd, you will notice the words well regulated "militia". Militia being the key word. Militia is a function of the several states, not the federal government ergo the phrase "well regulated" meaning, the states should just not levy farmers into service who have no military training, but actually train them.

If the states failed to meet their obligation, the federal government would have collapsed as it could not perform its mandated duty to defend against anything. The failure of the SC to recognize the significance in this regard amazes me. Had Pres Washington been unsuccessful quelling the Whiskey Rebellion in the nascent days of our republic, the experiment may just have become a footnote in a 5th grade history book.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305785 - 02/27/18 04:18 AM Re: Gun Control [Re: rporter314]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Oh! I get it!

States have well-regulated militias, typically called the National Guard or something.

So all these AR-15 owners are members of the National Guard?

Well, I'm a little disappointed in some of the recent actions of a few members of our well-regulated militia.


Edited by Spag-hetti (02/27/18 04:21 AM)
Edit Reason: dropped an article
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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