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#306442 - 04/19/18 03:59 PM What it will take to curb the President
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
There are currently 193 democrats in the House and 49 in the Senate (including the 2 independents). To have presidential override, it will take 290 votes in the House and 67 in the Senate. Even if the democrats were to take control of both chambers - a big if - they have no chance of getting those kinds of majorities.

Realistically, then, Democrats, assuming perfect unity (certainly not a given), will need Republican support to override vetoes or seek impeachment. How much? A lot.

Best case (realistic) scenario Dems gain 30 seats in the House and two in the Senate. That's 220 and 51. They would need 70 Representatives and 16 Senators to "cross over" to support such actions. That's a hard row to hoe. Are there that many principled Republican legislators in either chamber? Recent history does not support that proposition.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306444 - 04/19/18 05:54 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1960
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
You are spot on! NOT gonna happen!

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#306445 - 04/19/18 06:07 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
I'm not counting on the Trump thing to get countered in just these two years. Hopefully we'll make a little progress in the mid terms but it's going to take an economic downturn(which I consider inevitable) to turn this thing around. The silver lining, if there is one, is that the longer it takes and the worse things get, the worse it will be for the Republican Party.

I noticed that China is not just responding to Trump's Trade War but responding with tariffs that will hurt areas that voted for Trump worst of all. Inscrutable!

The stock market is all over the place and liable to become more volatile as time goes by. Trump's limited and myopic understanding of the world economy is most likely to be his downfall.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306446 - 04/20/18 12:25 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Just a few Senate seats, and the President can no longer pass any bill that is too obnoxious. More important, he will not be able to confirm anyone too incompetent or insane for anything. As his appointees get indicted, he won't be be able to replace them. I don't know if Trump could stand being a total lame duck. It's not in his nature to tolerate being a loser.

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#306447 - 04/20/18 01:12 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Sorry but I am not that pessimistic.
I'm thinking we're probably going to wind up with somewhere between 53 and 56 in the Senate.
I am not sure of the House numbers but we'll have a majority.
Still not enough for a veto override but enough to stem the hemorrhaging.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306450 - 04/21/18 12:01 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
STOP THE WITCH HUNT

IMPEACH MR TRUMP NOW!!!!!!
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306451 - 04/21/18 03:44 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I'm not a religious person, but I do pray, occasionally. What I've been praying for for decades is the complete collapse of the Republican party as it currently exists. I'm not sure the United States can survive another decade of their influence. It is a cancer in the body politic. We're in the advanced stage of this disease, and only utter eradication will give us a chance to survive.

Hillary Clinton's analysis was estute, even if it was ridiculed even by those who knew better. Trump's supporters were represented by three baskets: The first group was allegedly made up of Republican supporters who didn’t like Clinton and would always vote along party lines;
Basket No. 2 reportedly included what Clinton described as those “who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens in their lives and their futures.”; and, of course, "the deplorables" the “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it,” she's reported as saying. The problem was, she said "half" - which, while underestimated, sounded bad, like "47%" did.

Until the Republicans in the first and third baskets are the smallest of minorities - kept around as an exemplar and the bogey men of children's nightmares, laughed at and pittied - and rational, compassionate, and ethical Representatives are the super majority, we will be on life support as a nation. The optimist in me believes some day, hopefully in my lifetime, we will get there. 2018 may be a start, but this will be the work of a generation or more. We've got decades of junk to dispose of and formidable deep pockets to overcome.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306453 - 04/21/18 04:16 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
this will be the work of a generation or more

your Pollyannaesque weltanschauung is ... I suppose ... somewhat refreshing.

I am a lot more cynical, especially after having my prediction of 3 generation evolution in racial thinking bitch slap me until I was unconscious. I am on the side of the grit of oil & dirt seen in dark places.

I have already made my opinion, regarding most Americans ability to think, very clear. I am out of the Jean Dixon business. What I do know is current Republican/conservative thinking is to neglect schools except for those which indoctrinate their ideals. Education is the key and as you should know, any effort to mitigate poor education is simply a mythologically eternal task in the current political environment.

Don't get me wrong. I am a lifetime believer the impossible takes a little longer to achieve. If it were so easy, the Greeks would have done it.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306469 - 04/23/18 07:06 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: rporter314]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
I keep reading that Trump's approval rating among Republicans remains a pretty steady 85 percent. I'm no statistician, but I think that means that they poll a sampling of Republicans and then figure that number is probably representative of the whole group. Poorly said, but mostly correct so far?

But I wonder if the number of people who identify themselves as Republicans is shrinking, or maybe not growing at a normal rate.

I wonder how many Republicans were so grossed out by candidate Trump that they became Independents or Democrats or nonvoters. I read herethis interesting statistic in a quote of a Gallup poll.

Party Affiliation
August 2017 - Democrats 28%, Republicans 28%, Independents 41%
January 2018 - Democrats 32%, Republicans 22%, Independents 44%

Now, I don't know how that works out, number of people wise, but the percentage of Democrats and Independents grew, while the number of Republicans shrank.

So the approval of 85% is approval of a smaller number of people than before. And I don't think it is going to change.

The Parkland teens have not associated themselves with a political party, but if they sway people to vote against candidates who do not support stricter gun laws, that means voting against a lot of Republicans. We saw the strength of their movement. I don't think many of them are going to register as Republicans. And then there's the women's movement.

I see a glimmer of hope.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#306470 - 04/23/18 07:13 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 302
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Statistics is Mathematics way to lie...
_________________________
Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#306471 - 04/24/18 07:20 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Gallup is actually pretty good, as polls go. So 85% of 22% is only 18.7% of Americans supporting Trump. Of course that's only among the people who claim to be Republicans. Are there no Democrats who support Trump? No Independents? I think the important number is the percentage of Independents who still support Trump. To a very large extent, they are the people who made him President.

An NBC poll says 32% of Independents and 11% of Democrats approve of his job performance. Combining this with the January 2018 - Democrats 32%, Republicans 22%, Independents 44% numbers, we get a composite score of 36.3% of all adults support him. His support among Republicans is not much higher than his support among Independents, just because there are so many Independents.

Of course, a large number of those could change their minds when Mueller's report comes out, when the President perjures himself in a deposition, when he fires Mueller, etc.

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#306472 - 04/24/18 05:41 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
Quote:
32% of Independents and 11% of Democrats approve of his job performance
Independents I can understand, to be "independent" can mean many things. But more than 1 in 10 Democrats approving of his abysmal job performance is a little hard to swallow.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306473 - 04/24/18 07:36 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Spag-hetti]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
I keep reading that Trump's approval rating among Republicans remains a pretty steady 85 percent. I'm no statistician, but I think that means that they poll a sampling of Republicans and then figure that number is probably representative of the whole group. Poorly said, but mostly correct so far?

But I wonder if the number of people who identify themselves as Republicans is shrinking, or maybe not growing at a normal rate.

I wonder how many Republicans were so grossed out by candidate Trump that they became Independents or Democrats or nonvoters. I read herethis interesting statistic in a quote of a Gallup poll.

Party Affiliation
August 2017 - Democrats 28%, Republicans 28%, Independents 41%
January 2018 - Democrats 32%, Republicans 22%, Independents 44%

Now, I don't know how that works out, number of people wise, but the percentage of Democrats and Independents grew, while the number of Republicans shrank.

So the approval of 85% is approval of a smaller number of people than before. And I don't think it is going to change.

The Parkland teens have not associated themselves with a political party, but if they sway people to vote against candidates who do not support stricter gun laws, that means voting against a lot of Republicans. We saw the strength of their movement. I don't think many of them are going to register as Republicans. And then there's the women's movement.

I see a glimmer of hope.


The Donald has been surprisingly OK. Domestically, unemployment is very low, he cut taxes and has kept his attention on illegal immigration. Internationally, the Iran agreement was a joke, it was just a way for Obama to give Iran their bank account back, North Korea is North Korea. They will do the same thing that they have done to every president since Carter, promise the world and screw us from behind. Russia is Russia and will always be the boogie man in the room. Once Mueller is done and he can't prosecute, maybe we should open a special council on the DNC and Pelosi?

All in all, aside from the fact that he is a moron of the first order, Trump is still better than the alternative. He hasn't done a bad job, even with the Democrats stabbing America, and Trump, in the back at every opportunity. Yeah, the whole Russia thing is a joke, not even worthy of my interest. If Trump is a moron,. and I believe he is, then everybody who thinks that Russia did anything that affected the election are mentally retarded, or a Hillary supporter. (Is that redundant?) All the evidence so far points to the DNC as the bad guys in this little wag the dog episode.

Hey, have a great day!

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306474 - 04/24/18 10:46 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The Donald has been surprisingly OK.

You know it can't last, Tim. Something is going to blow up in his face, I know it, you know it. It's just a matter of time.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306475 - 04/24/18 11:12 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
Quote:
All the evidence so far points to the DNC as the bad guys in this little wag the dog episode.


Betsy Devoss...unqualified and attempting to dismantle public education in a time when education is the key to our nations success.

Jeff Sessions..."Good People don't Smoke marijuana"

Scott Pruit....doing everything in his power to stop the Environmental Protection Agency from protecting the environment.

Ben Carson....pyramids, grain...you know the guy. Remember back before the election Trump Promised him a job for his endorsement.

And now Ronnie Jackson. A drunk, abusive, ass kisser. Trump Finds out that the head of the VA worked for Obama...so he grabs the nearest doctor and nominates him. Now he suggests that the guy not take the job. But the guy is still fighting for the job and Stormy Daniels, Mueller, Russia, Korea etc etc....it's exactly what you'd expect when you elect a moron.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306476 - 04/25/18 12:10 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8800
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
... he cut taxes ...

HeyTim, good to see you! I've been wanting a good solid R opinion on whether a tax cut that raises the deficit by more than the cut is really a cut?

What say you?
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306477 - 04/25/18 12:11 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: logtroll]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
... he cut taxes ...

HeyTim, good to see you! I've been wanting a good solid R opinion on whether a tax cut that raises the deficit by more than the cut is really a cut?

What say you?


The problem is always the same. When you cut taxes and don't make corresponding cuts in the budget the deficit is going to balloon. The budgeting process in America is a joke, with cowards on both sides afraid to make tough decisions, so they push the problem down the road to the next generation. Eventually, this issue will have to be addressed and it will be interesting to see how it is. Will Americans, who are generally an anti-tax small government type of population, allow their elected representatives to increase taxes to address the deficit, or do they force a reimaging of the Federal process? My guess is that America will not allow their hard earned monies to taken away from them to support those people and programs that do not fall within what they would consider productive.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306478 - 04/25/18 01:31 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Greger]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
The Donald has been surprisingly OK.

You know it can't last, Tim. Something is going to blow up in his face, I know it, you know it. It's just a matter of time.



I really don't expect it to last. Look at what is happening, look how hard the professional politicians are fighting him, and I don't point my fingers at only the Dems.

Eventually, the Donald will loose his mind and point fingers at his own party, and that will become a defining moment in US political history. Will the GOP line up behind the non-politician POTUS, or will they line up behind the status quo? So far, no matter how hard the professional politicians have tried, they have not been able to reign Trump in. He is still the guy without a filter who actually says what he means and usually means what he says. I am not a big fan, but his style of politicking is refreshing. I wish more people would adopt it.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306479 - 04/25/18 05:17 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
Quote:
his style of politicking is refreshing.

His style of politicking is kleptocracy.

He's running a family business with ties to organized crime from the White House with little regard for actual governance. Might as well be Don Corleone.

But...if he was a Liberal and espousing liberal ideas while he robbed the country blind I'd probably find his politicking refreshing too.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306481 - 04/25/18 07:16 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Greger]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
his style of politicking is refreshing.

His style of politicking is kleptocracy.

He's running a family business with ties to organized crime from the White House with little regard for actual governance. Might as well be Don Corleone.

But...if he was a Liberal and espousing liberal ideas while he robbed the country blind I'd probably find his politicking refreshing too.


This is what happens when a billionaire gets elected President of the United States. It is naďve to think he would give up his business interests for such a shitty job, hell he donates his salary to charity.

Can we be honest and realistic for a moment, just between you and me? I won't tell anybody. Did you really believe that Donald would divest or that he could actually divest or that he should? This guy is a success story. Yes, it is a mixed bag of success, but hell, be became the POTUS. He has made and lost, and then made it again, more money than we will ever be associated with. If you guys hadn't been so determined to undermine his presidency, and the country at the same time, he might have done great thing, or he might have flamed out spectacularly by now. So now, when the next Dem gets elected, maybe Mexico will have tried to influence that election? Or maybe MS13, or Jamaica. Who knows, maybe the DNC will get framed for money laundering? You have provided the blueprint for how to screw the POTUS and the country all in one fell swoop. I just hope that you get the chance to reap what you have sown.

Boston had a mayor, Kevin White. He was a Dem and a crook and a con man. He held a birthday party for his WIFE every year and demanded everybody in his administration, as well as all department heads and most of the house and senate, come to the party and bring gifts. Their were rumors, and since my father in law actually had to attend, strong rumors, that you job depended upon your $100 gift (cash). What he did for Boston was well worth every penny he stole. He got the job done, had the streets plowed and the potholes filled. The City of Boston grew at an unbelievable rate and most of the city development has been maintained.

Sometimes a con man is what is needed to succeed.

Have a nice day,

Tim



Edited by Ma_Republican (04/25/18 07:17 PM)
Edit Reason: Spelling
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306482 - 04/25/18 07:44 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
his style of politicking is refreshing

No, his style of politicking is erratic. He either does not remember his positions from one day to the next or he is just a pathological liar. Most of his positions don't even make any sense. They are simply what he saw on Fox and Friends the day before.

Blaming Democrats for his problems is delusional: Donald's problems are all of his own making. No Democrat made him nominate all these criminals and morons. No Democrat made him screw so many women, grab women by the crotch and brag about it on video tape, spy on naked teens, make up a phony ACA replacement ("every will be covered for less money"), support neo-nazis, kiss Putin's butt, etc.

Trump has only one redeeming quality: His Presidency will mean the destruction of the Republican Party. Congressional Republicans could have saved their party by opposing Trump from the start but they supported all his vile behavior and they will never live that down. Trump is the Republican Party jumping the shark.

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#306483 - 04/25/18 10:17 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Tim ... it would not do any good to refute your beliefs, since you would continue to believe them regardless of the facts.

My God ... I know you represent a significant segment of the population but what I see coming is a failing reality show on the cancellation block to become a 3rd rate banana dictatorship run by phony klepocrats ... and you find that good

May God have mercy on America, because some citizens don't give a crap about it
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306484 - 04/25/18 10:36 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
Quote:
You have provided the blueprint for how to screw the POTUS and the country all in one fell swoop. I just hope that you get the chance to reap what you have sown.


Oh Tim....while we're being honest and all, just glance back at the way your party treated Obama. Republicans meticulously drew up that blueprint and followed it for eight years.

As it stands, my friend, it is your party reaping the whirlwind.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306486 - 04/26/18 10:45 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Kaine Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 2145
Loc: Pennsylvania
I can just see what would happen if a Democrat would be president and pulling the same bs that Trump is doing. I think a Democrat would have been impeached by now. How sad the hyprocisy is.

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#306487 - 04/26/18 12:17 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: rporter314]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Tim ... it would not do any good to refute your beliefs, since you would continue to believe them regardless of the facts.

My God ... I know you represent a significant segment of the population but what I see coming is a failing reality show on the cancellation block to become a 3rd rate banana dictatorship run by phony klepocrats ... and you find that good

May God have mercy on America, because some citizens don't give a crap about it


We are living in great moment in the history of the United States of America. We have a President who is a moron. A President who has no filter between his thoughts and his mouth. A President who has proven to everybody in America that it is possible for a somewhat ordinary person to become POTUS. Think about that for a moment and bask in the glory of what actually happened. Donald Trump is the antithesis of a typical politician. He speaks his mind, unfortunately a lot of times it at 2:00 AM on Twitter, but there is no doubt that Trump is genuine. Yes, yes, I can hear many of you now thinking “Genuine loser”, or “Genuine A-hole”. What Trump did was turn the political class out on their collective asses. I don’t care who you are, or what party you support, that is a very VERRY good thing.

Donald Trump is not the guy I would have wanted to be President, not even the second or third guy. But what he accomplished by being elected is incredible! What he has proven is that the system works and is robust. Politics is a contact sport, only the strong should play. Donald has shown America that there is another playbook that can be followed. He has proven that Americans are sick of having to be good all of the time. He has proven that America is not Europe, and hopefully never will be.

Hate on Donald all you want. His election might just be a blip on the radar, or it might be the beginning of America rediscovering what made is successful in the first place. America always ignored the naysayers, never listened when she was told something was impossible. Everybody said that Hillary was the next best thing. Everybody was going to celebrate the coronation of the second very PC POTUS, a powerful woman who would set the world on fire. Tough sh!t that she was unlikable, that she had the personality of a goat, she was the preordained champion. Sometimes, life gives you lemons, but this time, life gave us lemonade. America, it seems, didn’t want a PC POTUS, hell they didn’t want a politician, what they wanted was somebody who listened and put America’s interests ahead of everybody else’s. The administration is still young, and don’t believe for a second that the next election will be easy. America, once again, is ahead of the curve.

We have a President who is a moron. A President who has no filter between his thoughts and his mouth and I wouldn’t want anybody else right now. From an entertainment standpoint, this is priceless. From a policy standpoint, he is hitting most of the issues that he promised he would (imagine a pol who actually does what he says he would do?). He is driving the inbred and ingrained Washington elite crazy. He is doing exactly what he said he would do. What a great time to be an American!

Tim


Edited by Ma_Republican (04/26/18 12:18 PM)
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306488 - 04/26/18 05:28 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
The economy dropped 140,000 jobs last month. Stock market showing signs the bull market is coming to an end.

Despite the entertainment value, there are consequences to electing a moron for a president. He promised to do moronic things...he's doing moronic things.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306489 - 04/26/18 05:33 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8800
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Ma_Republican, reporting live from the Upside Down!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306490 - 04/26/18 05:54 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 825
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Tim ... it would not do any good to refute your beliefs, since you would continue to believe them regardless of the facts.

My God ... I know you represent a significant segment of the population but what I see coming is a failing reality show on the cancellation block to become a 3rd rate banana dictatorship run by phony klepocrats ... and you find that good

May God have mercy on America, because some citizens don't give a crap about it


We are living in great moment in the history of the United States of America. We have a President who is a moron. A President who has no filter between his thoughts and his mouth. A President who has proven to everybody in America that it is possible for a somewhat ordinary person to become POTUS. Think about that for a moment and bask in the glory of what actually happened. Donald Trump is the antithesis of a typical politician. He speaks his mind, unfortunately a lot of times it at 2:00 AM on Twitter, but there is no doubt that Trump is genuine. Yes, yes, I can hear many of you now thinking “Genuine loser”, or “Genuine A-hole”. What Trump did was turn the political class out on their collective asses. I don’t care who you are, or what party you support, that is a very VERRY good thing.

Donald Trump is not the guy I would have wanted to be President, not even the second or third guy. But what he accomplished by being elected is incredible! What he has proven is that the system works and is robust. Politics is a contact sport, only the strong should play. Donald has shown America that there is another playbook that can be followed. He has proven that Americans are sick of having to be good all of the time. He has proven that America is not Europe, and hopefully never will be.

Hate on Donald all you want. His election might just be a blip on the radar, or it might be the beginning of America rediscovering what made is successful in the first place. America always ignored the naysayers, never listened when she was told something was impossible. Everybody said that Hillary was the next best thing. Everybody was going to celebrate the coronation of the second very PC POTUS, a powerful woman who would set the world on fire. Tough sh!t that she was unlikable, that she had the personality of a goat, she was the preordained champion. Sometimes, life gives you lemons, but this time, life gave us lemonade. America, it seems, didn’t want a PC POTUS, hell they didn’t want a politician, what they wanted was somebody who listened and put America’s interests ahead of everybody else’s. The administration is still young, and don’t believe for a second that the next election will be easy. America, once again, is ahead of the curve.

We have a President who is a moron. A President who has no filter between his thoughts and his mouth and I wouldn’t want anybody else right now. From an entertainment standpoint, this is priceless. From a policy standpoint, he is hitting most of the issues that he promised he would (imagine a pol who actually does what he says he would do?). He is driving the inbred and ingrained Washington elite crazy. He is doing exactly what he said he would do. What a great time to be an American!

Tim


Refreshing to see a fool enthusiastically shoveling a rich mans stable for the 'freedom' of being politically incorrect. Whatever that means...

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#306491 - 04/26/18 06:19 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
What a bunch of typical, narrow minded Kool-Aid drinkers. You just can't see past your politics. Trump won because people took politics seriously. They thumbed their nose at the quality of the candidates, at the content that they spewed and at the policies that they represented. They collectively said HELL NO! and sent Trump to take the fall.

Being POTUS sucks, being POTUS in today's politics sucks worse. Had Hillary won, the atmosphere might have been a little better, but not by much. Imagine Hillary in the #MeToo era? Hell, she is the poster child for abusers and their patsies. So, let me tell you something that you just don't want to admit to yourselves; America is sick of the junk that has been thrown at them for the past 30 years and is looking for a President who represents America. They don't want Obama apologizing for being American, they don't want to make excuses at the UN and they don't care what Europe wants us to spend our money on. The days of the imperial US President are, I hope, over. The days of the President doing what is right for America are starting, and we are just at the beginning.

Be happy! You are at the beginning of a rebirth of a nation. You will be witness to either America taking control of their destiny, or America dying the lingering death of internationalism. A country cannot survive if it does not protect itself. It is time for America to look inward, and ignore the noise from the outside.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306492 - 04/26/18 06:43 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 825
You say nothing and talk in slogans Ma. We are an organization of corporations. International organization that pay little taxes and cannot be sued. The politicians work for them. You helped this state of affairs every step of the way. We are little more than a conglomeration of nuclear armed strip malls, cul de sac's and spent urban centers with gaping income disparities.
What will rise out of this is fascism. You are leading the parade with your watered down 'blood and soil' slogans. You will go Nazi.


Edited by chunkstyle (04/26/18 06:45 PM)

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#306493 - 04/26/18 07:16 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: chunkstyle]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
You say nothing and talk in slogans Ma. We are an organization of corporations. International organization that pay little taxes and cannot be sued. The politicians work for them. You helped this state of affairs every step of the way. We are little more than a conglomeration of nuclear armed strip malls, cul de sac's and spent urban centers with gaping income disparities.
What will rise out of this is fascism. You are leading the parade with your watered down 'blood and soil' slogans. You will go Nazi.


It always amazes me when a true believer sees the truth. Sometimes they cry, sometimes, like just now, they strike out at the source of their revelation.

Hey, I actually didn't vote for the Don. I am from Massachusetts, my vote didn't count anyway. Don't blame me, look in a mirror and ask yourself what would have happened if you hadn't run Hillary? Then look at a paper and see who is POTUS.

From a purely entertainment value, all I can do is ask for the popcorn and the Coca Cola.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306494 - 04/26/18 07:45 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 825
Flattery will get you everywhere with a republican Ma. You flatter yourself.
You have been all Ayn Rand rolled up in Friedman papers. BOTH parties have been pursuing the atomization of society for the benefit of corporatism. I see the fascists getting on board with it cuz they are herd like and love imposed hierarchies. It's a safe space in a chaotic world and gives the dumb and bigoted comfort.

Whites above browns, Christians above other religions, Men above Women, etc.... It's safe and comforting. Kinda like a mother telling their average performing kid their special till he believes it.

What's hard is looking at the power structure as it is and calling B.S. What's easy is carrying the rich mans water for a few strokes and false flattery.
You'll go Nazi


Edited by chunkstyle (04/26/18 07:46 PM)

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#306495 - 04/26/18 07:48 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Be happy! You are at the beginning of a rebirth of a nation.


Actually...I'm pretty happy with the way things are turning out. Republicans are stumbling and fumbling, pissing off friends and foes alike. Flailing about like amateurs with no concept of how to govern once elected. They have alienated not just the Millenials but the next generation as well. Z-Gen is getting old enough to vote now and they are seeing firsthand why Republicans cannot be trusted to govern.

Yes, Tim, a new day is coming! But Conservatives aren't going to be playing a major role in it.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306496 - 04/26/18 08:05 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 825
"Undereducated, consigned to cyclical underemployment, cut off from attaining the women in the videos and movies they watch, unable to articulate personal truths, desperate to belong to something that will make them feel they too have “dragon energy”; this is how capitalism, brands, and even hip-hop thrive—by making the bulk of us feel like losers while holding the carrot on a stick of a future winning just out of reach.

These are particularly insidious diseases masquerading as curative measures.

We are infected, no doubt about it. We are a country addicted to nostalgia, but with no regard for history. Nostalgia is history without moral reckoning; it keeps people pining for golden eras that never existed and anticipating a future that will never materialize. It keeps us invested in the brands that tailor themselves to fit our innermost fears and desires. It keeps us wed to the very hustlers and ethically challenged idiots who will happily lead us to our own demise, knowing they’ve trained us to hold our own leashes for the duration of the walk."

Taken from a recent Kanye West critique describing a bigger narrative of america. Seems pertinent to this thread.....

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#306497 - 04/26/18 10:28 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
so your justification for supporting

{aside}I do not hate Mr Trump. I feel sorry for him. He suffers from a personality disorder which makes him believe he is the savior of America, the greatest human to ever etc etc{/aside}

the moronic Mr Trump is, he is doing what he said he would do. What he said he would do is frak America and make people like you love it .... and he has succeeded.

I can only conclude you believe men like Jefferson, Madison, and Adams are enemies of the state.

What would make America great again, as in 1789 great, is for people to rise up and stop the lunacy.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306498 - 04/26/18 11:52 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
"Undereducated, consigned to cyclical underemployment, cut off from attaining the women in the videos and movies they watch, unable to articulate personal truths, desperate to belong to something that will make them feel they too have “dragon energy”; this is how capitalism, brands, and even hip-hop thrive—by making the bulk of us feel like losers while holding the carrot on a stick of a future winning just out of reach.

These are particularly insidious diseases masquerading as curative measures.

We are infected, no doubt about it. We are a country addicted to nostalgia, but with no regard for history. Nostalgia is history without moral reckoning; it keeps people pining for golden eras that never existed and anticipating a future that will never materialize. It keeps us invested in the brands that tailor themselves to fit our innermost fears and desires. It keeps us wed to the very hustlers and ethically challenged idiots who will happily lead us to our own demise, knowing they’ve trained us to hold our own leashes for the duration of the walk."

Taken from a recent Kanye West critique describing a bigger narrative of america. Seems pertinent to this thread.....



---And the dumbest and most myopic among us who managed to snatch up a couple of crumbs through whatever nefarious short term con could work the levers for a few seconds will walk around parroting the same gospel pitch, pretending that their little piece of ill-gotten gains could form a foundation for lasting stability aboard whatever piece of floating wreckage they managed to grab.

"Hey, I found a headboard in the water, we're not sinking after all!"



Capitalism is a TOOL, and if you're going to shape that tool to serve only the hustlers, pimps and cons, you're going to need an inexhaustible supply of chumps and marks.

On the other hand, if you shape that tool to serve the middle class, the hustlers have to be consigned to the scrap heap because it's the average working stiff who is the hero. He's the one raising the families, making sure his kids get good grades and keeping them on the straight and narrow. He's the one who wants his kids to grow up respecting the moral values and ethics that the founding fathers did.

You can't have it both ways. If your hero is the Pimp Daddy, don't be surprised when your kids rip you off and stab you in the back down the road.



_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306499 - 04/27/18 11:19 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: chunkstyle]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Flattery will get you everywhere with a republican Ma. You flatter yourself.
You have been all Ayn Rand rolled up in Friedman papers. BOTH parties have been pursuing the atomization of society for the benefit of corporatism. I see the fascists getting on board with it cuz they are herd like and love imposed hierarchies. It's a safe space in a chaotic world and gives the dumb and bigoted comfort.

Whites above browns, Christians above other religions, Men above Women, etc.... It's safe and comforting. Kinda like a mother telling their average performing kid their special till he believes it.

What's hard is looking at the power structure as it is and calling B.S. What's easy is carrying the rich mans water for a few strokes and false flattery.
You'll go Nazi


There you go, lashing out at the source of your uncomfort. Don't worry, I am here for you! I have big shoulders for you to cry on.

It is always funny, when a liberal has no argument, they infer racism is the issue. When there is no racism, they make it up. So go ahead, call me names, tell me I am a Nazi or a racist. What I am, is an American who is not caught up in something that happened long before I could tie my shoes.

Yeah, yeah, I understand that your carefully scripted world came crashing down on you when Trump got elected. What happens if he gets reelected? What happens when you discover that America just doesn't like the schtick that they have been fed for the last 50 years?

Just remember, the biggest bunch of race hucksters in America is the Democratic Party. They are the ones who take race out of the closet every election, just to carefully put back in the closet right after the election is over. To me, we are all Americans, to a Dem, he is a white guy, she is a African American. The latest socioeconomic group to be abused by the Dems are the Dreamers. Tell me honestly, what have you done to help that group of people, other than nothing? I have sympathy for them, that is the group of illegal immigrants who had no choice and who deserves to have a chance of staying in America. What your party is doing is a disgrace, but the Dems don't care because that particular group of people are no supposed to vote, so they really can't help the Dems during election season. And, if you can't help a Dem during the elections, then you are persona non grata to them.

You have a great day.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306500 - 04/27/18 12:27 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 825
Meh
If you had to give a grade for your trolling, Ma, I'd give it a C.
To long. Brevity is at it's core.
Clumsy arguments. No kernal of truth, more mind palace blatherings.
Racism the argument of the defeated liberal?: Carlottsville marchers, Richard Spencer, Alt Right, Breitbart, All found a home in the Republican Party.......
The list goes on with the weak tea arguments but why bother?
You'll go Nazi


Edited by chunkstyle (04/27/18 12:31 PM)

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#306501 - 04/27/18 12:32 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8800
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
I had a brief discussion (a generous term) recently on another blog about the concept of Trump having great value for shaking up the status quo. Surprising to me, there was a significant level of agreement that he is an agent of chaos. Except his supporters gleefully made a case that chaos was "good" and "natural" and therefore desirable. I suggested that chaos without a plan, a strategy, to guide the chaotic shitstorm to a new form of improved governance, was suicidal. 'Disruption' is one thing (it is actually a term in vogue for technologies and management initiatives that escape restrictive norms and solve problems on multiple fronts at once); but chaos that has no underlying strategy for improvement is 'destruction'.

I see a clear desire on the part of the Trump-class of supporters (and yes, Tim is obviously a supporter) for destruction. It gives them outsized and morbid pleasure, a fact that raises the hair on my head. Somehow, as Tim demonstrates, they imagine that the #WINNERS! will survive the apocalypse and rise from the ashes as prosperous heroes.

Waterworld, anyone? Road Warriors? No worries, mate, the post apocalyptic world will be Paradise!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306502 - 04/27/18 01:37 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: logtroll]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
I had a brief discussion (a generous term) recently on another blog about the concept of Trump having great value for shaking up the status quo. Surprising to me, there was a significant level of agreement that he is an agent of chaos. Except his supporters gleefully made a case that chaos was "good" and "natural" and therefore desirable. I suggested that chaos without a plan, a strategy, to guide the chaotic shitstorm to a new form of improved governance, was suicidal. 'Disruption' is one thing (it is actually a term in vogue for technologies and management initiatives that escape restrictive norms and solve problems on multiple fronts at once); but chaos that has no underlying strategy for improvement is 'destruction'.

I see a clear desire on the part of the Trump-class of supporters (and yes, Tim is obviously a supporter) for destruction. It gives them outsized and morbid pleasure, a fact that raises the hair on my head. Somehow, as Tim demonstrates, they imagine that the #WINNERS! will survive the apocalypse and rise from the ashes as prosperous heroes.

Waterworld, anyone? Road Warriors? No worries, mate, the post apocalyptic world will be Paradise!


Chaos

1.
a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order.
2.
any confused, disorderly mass:
a chaos of meaningless phrases.

How can anything be chaotic and have plan or a strategy?
I believe that Trump's election will cure many ills. My worry is the that the cure might be worse than the ill. All I can say is that the current incarnation of America isn't working. The priorities are wrong, the budget is nonexistent and the leadership is corrupt and uninformed, on both sides of the aisle. It is time for America to take a really good look at itself and fix what is wrong. If that means that a guy like Donald Trump has to spend 4 years, or maybe 8 years, in the White House, then we are stuck with the Donald.

The sheer horror I see from the established "leaders" on both sides of the political make me want to jump for joy! Finally, somebody who can make the cesspool dwellers of Congress look at themselves? We should make a movie, Donald goes to Washington! Starring Hillary Clinton as the shrill screecher, Paul Ryan as Little Boy Bought and Sold, Nancy Pelosi as the Wicked Witch of the West and Donald Trump as the anti-hero President who can't do anything right, but still succeeds despite himself. Guest starring porn stars, a litany of ex-flames, ex-politicians, ex-FBI agents and the DNC looking to deflect the fact they invested money in a document that was supposed to discredit out anti-hero.

We will make a fortune!

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306504 - 04/27/18 02:50 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 825
Agreed!

Trump is every fat necked aging white male boomers fantasy come true. Out there raw doggin porn stars, wipin his hands on the drapes of fancy cocktail parties, living in a New York penthouse not afraid of calling a spade a spade. He's the idea of success of every spoiled and angry fox news watching white aging boomer Pa Pa and they would make a line around the block to watch that movie making us rich much like they have made the gold investment hustlers and erection pill companies rich.

At last Ma, we agree. Trump brought us together......

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#306505 - 04/27/18 02:59 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8800
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
See how they elevate chaos? very strange...

The reason for it is that the other options are all somehow worse.

If true Americans are so capable of rebuilding from the ashes of total collapse, then why not use that innate power and talent to fix things through positive disruptive, rather than destructive means? If we can't do that, then I don't see how we can rise from the dead (metaphorically speaking).

Using the American Revolution as a comparison, did the founders of the American nation ride Chaos into the formation of the United States, or did they have a plan that was developed through much intelligent discussion and compromise?

What is your plan for a new America, Tim? All I see is, "gonna git mine while the gittin' is good! Every man fer hisself! No more rules!"


Edited by logtroll (04/27/18 03:00 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306506 - 04/27/18 05:19 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13949
Loc: Florida
Quote:
It is time for America to take a really good look at itself and fix what is wrong.


Truer words were never spoken. We may disagree about what is wrong and how to fix it but at least there is some common ground.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306507 - 04/27/18 06:57 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican

How can anything be chaotic and have plan or a strategy?


Forest fires.
Mother Nature sets her own forest fires for a very structured and very organized reason.

Next?
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306510 - 04/27/18 07:16 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8800
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Trump is a farce of Nature?
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306511 - 04/28/18 12:45 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I believe conservatives believe
Quote:
Every man fer hisself! No more rules!
(regarding the federal government. why they can not see local governments are every bit as restrictive and constraining beats me)

I call it the Darwinian Death Match ... no protection from the federal government

sorry I stepped on an earlier comment ... I see you recognize the result of the chaos .... why does it elude Tim?


Edited by rporter314 (04/28/18 12:58 AM)
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306513 - 04/28/18 12:56 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
All I can say is that the current incarnation of America isn't working. ... If that means that a guy like Donald Trump has to spend 4 years, or maybe 8 years, in the White House, then we are stuck with the Donald.

Tim .... first I recommend taking a course in logic.

Your comment is nonsensical. You say nothing is working ... then you say Mr Trump will fix it ... but the facts say he is making it worse .... so you support him

You love tax cuts (read that to really mean you don't want to pay for entitlements) and you want a balanced budget. Mr Trump just signed a bill which will give you a tax cut (for a little daub of money) but the budget will balloon by 150% (CBO projection). So why are you supporting Mr Trump??? Isn't there some definition about insanity which may be applicable???
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306524 - 04/28/18 10:05 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I don't want to pile on Ma R, but...
seriously?? Tim, do you ever really consider the content of what you post? I really, really, really want to have a discussion that includes conservative thoughts on the subject, but I don't see any evidence of that in any of your "contributions". I don't even know where to begin.

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#306525 - 04/28/18 10:36 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am going to apologize again (and may do it again) for typing and thinking, prior to election and at inauguration, Mr Trump could have been "curbed" by staff and Congress. I did not take into account the depth and hold of the cult of personality with this person. Man ... really wrong ... maybe don't pay attention to anything I type.

Based on recent history and an article by Trump biographers on his penchant to drive businesses into the ground and destroy his staff along the way, it would appear one could make a similar argument for the future of America. I am not the only person to note the signs of future problems. But, this is more complicated than merely the intrusion of Trump Chaos. There has been a tectonic style shift in the politics of the country of which everyone is aware, but I suspect it is worse than people have previously realized. This may be akin to the boiling frog metaphor. We may not realize the extent of damage until it is too late.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306527 - 04/28/18 06:23 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
The only saving grace may be that a Russian agent is unlikely to launch the nukes at Russia. Putin would never approve that.

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#306529 - 04/29/18 08:00 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314
There has been a tectonic style shift in the politics of the country of which everyone is aware, but I suspect it is worse than people have previously realized. This may be akin to the boiling frog metaphor. We may not realize the extent of damage until it is too late.



100 percent spot on.
I've been following the story of the thirteen Turpin children who were "homeschooled" and tortured for decades by their sicko parents.
And I see a ton of parallels!

I remarked to my wife that the Turpin 13 incident is just the tip of the iceberg, and that along the way, we will see HUNDREDS of cases just like the Turpin family.
And we all know how much the conservatives LOVE to home-school their kiddos, don't we...

So, just like we're going to see all manner of skyrocketing collateral damage from kids who were subjected to dire conditions and home-schooled with all kinds of whacko ideas, we're also going to see a larger and more generalized malaise, even after Trump and Trumpism disappears into past history.
I think we will see a generation of highly disillusioned people and families wandering around, taking out their confusion and anger on society in multiple horrific ways for many years to come.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306531 - 04/30/18 03:33 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40892
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
I think we will see a generation of highly disillusioned people and families wandering around, taking out their confusion and anger on society in multiple horrific ways for many years to come.

Why do you think that CONtards favor the sale of AR-15s? CONtards don't care, because Mother Nature will have taken care of them by then, anyway. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#306545 - 05/01/18 04:29 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: rporter314]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
All I can say is that the current incarnation of America isn't working. ... If that means that a guy like Donald Trump has to spend 4 years, or maybe 8 years, in the White House, then we are stuck with the Donald.

Tim .... first I recommend taking a course in logic.

Your comment is nonsensical. You say nothing is working ... then you say Mr Trump will fix it ... but the facts say he is making it worse .... so you support him

You love tax cuts (read that to really mean you don't want to pay for entitlements) and you want a balanced budget. Mr Trump just signed a bill which will give you a tax cut (for a little daub of money) but the budget will balloon by 150% (CBO projection). So why are you supporting Mr Trump??? Isn't there some definition about insanity which may be applicable???


Where did I say that Trump will fix anything? Trump is a symptom of what ails America. Half of America support the idea of what Trump campaigned on, and half don't. What is hard about that logic? If it takes 4 years, or 8 years, of Donald Trump to force America to fix itself, then Donald is the bitter medicine that is needed.

Every tax cut should come with equal or greater amounts of budget cuts, otherwise you are not correcting the sins of your forefathers, but multiplying them. Look, anytime the government tells me I can keep my money, I jump at the chance. Eventually the federal government will have to either cut the budget or raise taxes because we are nearing the deficit breaking point. I will gladly pay more taxes if the budget gets cut and a balanced budget amendment were to be passed. Maybe even a line item veto amendment. But in the current tax environment, give me another tax cut, maybe two! Because, the more tax cuts, the quicker we solve the deficit problem.

Donald Trump is just a better alternative than either Hillary or Bernie. I am enjoying the theater, laughing at the results. He has you liberals so worked up and turned around that you willingly passed that tax cut. Then he does something like North Korea! Too funny.

You have a very terrific day! Remember, make America great again.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306546 - 05/01/18 04:30 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I don't want to pile on Ma R, but...
seriously?? Tim, do you ever really consider the content of what you post? I really, really, really want to have a discussion that includes conservative thoughts on the subject, but I don't see any evidence of that in any of your "contributions". I don't even know where to begin.

If I told you I don't care what you think, would that upset you?

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306550 - 05/01/18 06:54 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Tim ... thanks for another installment of the nonsense from Trump Central

1st let me make this comment ... if I say A is true and then I say B is true and if properly constructed and A and B implies C, then I do not have to say C ... the reader or listener should have figured that out or I do not have to say the words for me to state something which I believe (or is more often the case with conservatives, they do not believe the conclusions of their own thinking)

2nd let me try to state something I think you are trying to say but as I will address later did not come close. I think you are saying Mr Trump is like treating cancer with chemo and thereby almost killing the patient in an attempt to eradicate the cancer. What you forgot is chemo does not always cure the patient. Sometimes the patient dies anyway.

So now lets look at your "logic". You support Mr Trump because he is the cure. Re-read your 1st paragraph. 1st you say he will not fix anything then you say after 4 or 8 years he will fix America. (You said Mr Trump was the medicine i.e. he is the savior ... he is the fixer)

So an example of this. Tax cuts with budget cuts ... that is your prescription to I have to guess, to balance the budget. But you support Mr Trump and his tax cuts .... where are those budget cuts? So do you half support Mr Trump or are you a loyal Trump supporter? So what is the result of the tax cut? The CBO recently scored it for the current fiscal year at 150% increase over previous projection or $1T deficit. Not only that but Republicans are now saying (the somewhat honest ones) the tax cut did not trickle to the middle class and will not raise revenues to offset deficits. And yet you support Mr Trump. I suspect you are the problem for your continued support of the madness that has infected America.

But wait there is more. You would willingly pay more taxes if there were a balanced budget amendment. Why would you want to pay more taxes? Do you want more services from the federal government? But wait you were not finished. You want more tax cuts. LOL ... so you want more tax cuts to raise the budget deficit even more. I love magical thinking, but only about metaphysics.

Tim I am no longer amazed by people who make as many nonsensical statements as you have .... I suspect this is what happened to the Roman Empire. I am afraid you are intoxicated from all the gaslighting.

BTW your other comment about liberals I think is one of the reasons some Trump supporters voted for him i.e. they would destroy America just so they can righteously thumb their noses at liberals ... to use words a la Trump ... childish very childish
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306551 - 05/01/18 08:10 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Quote:
If I told you I don't care what you think, would that upset you?

Tim
Not a whit. You see, Tim, I learned some time ago that your posts are based on a belief system, not reality. Facts, logic, and give and take discourse are anathema. In the many years we've been posting on this site I've never, not once, seen your mind changed on any subject. I accept that. There are some minor issues that we agree on, but for the most part I find your posts unrevealing or subject to rational consideration. I don't watch FOX because it, similarly, does not brook considered thought or accept criticism.

At the Rant, however, a multiplicity of thought is welcomed. I respond because others might find the discussion illuminating. When I post I try to invite response - Not always successfully - and I've had my mind changed not infrequently, or at least my viewpoint altered. You don't invite that so, I'm completely unsurprised you "don't care". It's your Schtick. You have relentlessly repeated the theme. It's also what's wrong with the Republican party you so gleefully promote, and why it is failing so miserably. I think, actually, it's rather cute when you claim not to support Trump. It's more like you're his "mini me". He is because of you.

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#306552 - 05/01/18 08:33 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 825
Trump is the logical conclusion of republican conservatism.

Ma very much cares what you think NWP. It's the only thing that sustains conservatism. It's only cohesive force for the base of older white males is to p!ss off libs. All the rest is logical contradictions and phony mind palace whining.

Why would Ma bother to let you know he doesn't care if he really didn't care?

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#306553 - 05/01/18 08:43 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
You know, liberals seem to make better policy wonks than other folks more often than not.
Well, policy wonks work their tails off, they hit all the right moral and ethical notes, they don't believe in hurting large groups of people to achieve a singular beneficial end for a tiny entrenched group of wealthy oligarchs, and they don't try to dodge tough questions by perching on shifting relativistic arguments. What's right is right.

They are also BORING AS HELL on 24 hour cable TV news segments and they don't like talking in sound bites. If you present tough, complicated questions, they're bound to give you tough, complicated answers and offer complicated solutions, which might be very sound, but again...
BOR-R-R-R-R-R-R-ING~!!!

And cable TV news cannot ever afford to be boring.

Know what's not boring?
You guessed it, the clowns, the extremists, the revanchists, the populists and the fundamentalist whackos.

I keep hearing the Right trying to suggest that "if Trump had run as a liberal, you guys would be defending him all the way to the edge of the cliff and beyond" or some such nonsense.

Nope, nope and nope, and here's why:

We already HAD a Trump-like character running for President MANY years ago.
In fact, he could wipe the floor with Donald Trump, all he would need is some careful image consultants and a few miracles. He might not have won but he would have destroyed Trump's chances completely by disrupting Trump's very own game.

I ask you to look specifically through Trump-style rose colored glasses on this one because it's not a focus group study, it's study in comparative styles and I see a lot of what Trump does now in this past candidate from LONG AGO, only he ran as a LIBERAL populist.



The only reason he ran as a Republican was to piss the Republicans off.
The Republicans should be thankful he got shot, they should be thankful he didn't try to run as a Democrat, and they should be thankful that he's too old, too beat up physically and too forgotten today.

But the point is, Larry Flynt wasn't trying to pollute our water and air, he wasn't trying to take away our public schools, he wasn't trying to fatten the rich on the backs of the poor, he wasn't trying to hurt our elderly and disabled veterans, he wasn't kow-towing to white nationalists, he wasn't trying to start wars all over the globe and he wasn't trying to dismantle the entire administrative state. He wasn't trying to put guns in the hands of every idiot in every square mile of the country either.
And he wasn't into declaring a free press "the enemy of the people".

If Larry Flynt had been hale, hearty and rich enough in 2016, he could have diverted a LOT of the low information naive populist vote AWAY from Trump.

Imagine a pay per view event with a clear headed and healthy Larry Flynt going up against Donald Trump in a one on one debate. Trump would be running for the door crying for his Mommy and Daddy in ten minutes.

And, it would have been the ratings bonanza of the CENTURY.

_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306555 - 05/01/18 08:58 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican

Boston had a mayor, Kevin White. He was a Dem and a crook and a con man. He held a birthday party for his WIFE every year and demanded everybody in his administration, as well as all department heads and most of the house and senate, come to the party and bring gifts. Their were rumors, and since my father in law actually had to attend, strong rumors, that you job depended upon your $100 gift (cash). What he did for Boston was well worth every penny he stole. He got the job done, had the streets plowed and the potholes filled. The City of Boston grew at an unbelievable rate and most of the city development has been maintained.

Sometimes a con man is what is needed to succeed.

Have a nice day,

Tim



Good, then you should have no trouble at all voting for Larry Flynt instead of Donald Trump.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306558 - 05/02/18 03:50 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40892
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Quote:
Every tax cut should come with equal or greater amounts of budget cuts...

Q: What do CONservatives, ISIS and al Queda all have in common? smile

A: They ALL want to degrade and destroy government. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#306566 - 05/02/18 07:37 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: pdx rick]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6467
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Quote:
Every tax cut should come with equal or greater amounts of budget cuts...

Q: What do CONservatives, ISIS and al Queda all have in common? smile

A: They ALL want to degrade and destroy government. Hmm

There is actually very little government to destroy. There are people who try to run our lives from afar. There are people who refuse to pay their bills. There are people who I wouldn't let in my yard, never mind my house. This is not a government, because they refuse to govern responsibly. Screw em, let Donald run us into the ground, maybe he will pass another tax cut before he does run us into the ground. Then, the government will have no choice but to address the mess they have made.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#306570 - 05/03/18 12:59 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Ma_Republican]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
In the same spirit, a good nuclear war would solve a lot of problems.

Of course, it would end the human race, but like I said it would end those problems.

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#306576 - 05/03/18 06:42 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Oh, oh! Rudy just said Trump DID pay Cohen the $130000. That means all of Trump's denials are Obstruction of Justice, because they were attempting to cover up his original crime (adultory, still illegal in New York), and that demonstrates corrupt intent. It is because Mueller is investigating that any lying about it is Obstruction. You don't have to be in court or under oath, either.

Trump has managed to stumble his way into the dog doo. Every time he's opened his mouth it gets worse. It would have been a big nothing-burger if he had said in 2016: "Yes I boned a porn star while my wife was giving birth to my son."

I doubt Rudy is going to last the month.

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#306757 - 05/16/18 01:23 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: pondering_it_all]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Back to the titular question, nothing will stop him, short of arrest.

How about this ZTE thing? Let's see ZTE sold Iran and North Korea electronics, in spite of the sanctions. They were fined and sentenced to not receiving electronic chips from us for seven years. ZTE said they would have to close their phone operation. I think I heard Apple cheering.

Then a Chinese construction company, state owned, loans Indonesian developers $500 million to build a resort. A resort with Trump hotels and a Trump golf course.

Now Trump wants to help ZTE get back in business as quickly as possible. Forget the sanctions violations. Forget the danger of those phones being hacked by the Chinese.

Apparently ZTE gets an informal pardon because ..... MONEY!!!

For crying out loud. Isn't that enough?

Bailiff! Whack his peepee!

I feel like I'm in a parallel universe. One where what should be conspiracy theories are real. This stuff is too corrupt to be believable, yet there it is, playing out right in front of our faces.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#306758 - 05/16/18 02:57 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I had the same out-of-body experience. Strain the swamp!
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306759 - 05/16/18 04:34 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Spag-hetti]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8800
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
...Apparently ZTE gets an informal pardon because ..... MONEY!!!...

Well, there's always the tariffs, right?
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306760 - 05/16/18 06:15 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
I see that Giuliani is now threatening Mueller. Not a great idea, Rudy! You are asking for a Obstruction indictment. You'd think they covered not threatening the prosecutor in the first year of law school. Firing Mueller could get Trump impeached, but it could send the lawyers who told him to do it to prison, even if Trump wasn't impeached.

40 Nixon administration people got indicted for a reason, including lawyers. Dean was a lawyer.

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#306761 - 05/16/18 04:19 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
You are asking for a Obstruction indictment.

You have of course assumed there are a number of responsible Republicans om Congress, but could you point out more than the, literally, handful of Republicans who have the integrity to put country ahead of party. Suppose SP Mueller presents AG Sessions with a report with evidence which would lead to indictments. Do you believe AG Sessions would do anything about it? Indict Don Jr? Jared? Eric? o maybe Ivanka?

I predict, once again, Mr Trump will fire, in no particular order, Rosenstein, Mueller, and if necessary Sessions. I also predict Republicans will do nothing, Hannity will praise Mr Trump for saving the country, and Mr Trump will serve out his term as president.

At that point, you, me, and everyone we can get to the voting booths will have the opportunity to remove this cretin, destroyer of a once great nation, klepocrat extraordinaire from public office.

Keep it real, with eyes locked on the prize
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306764 - 05/17/18 04:32 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Did you forget that quite a few of these crimes are also state crimes? Some important states with jurisdiction over any crime that happens in their state are run by Democrats, with Democratic Governors and Attorney Generals. They do not need Congressional cooperation to indict, try, and convict. And their sentences are not subject to Presidential pardon.

Almost everybody executed in the US is convicted in State court.

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#306765 - 05/17/18 10:46 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I think you are conflating federal and state crimes.

SP Mueller is only concerned with federal crimes.

As far as I know, only a few non-Trump family people are considered for state crimes.

All the Trump family (except Mr Trump) could, if there is evidence, be indicted in state courts, I suppose, but that does not solve the problem. I do not know the Constitutional answer to the question whether a sitting president can be indicted in state court, but this is of course the only question worth asking.

I have to guess Giuliani may be truthful when he stated SP Mueller told the Trump obstruction team of attorneys, he, SP Mueller, would not indict Mr Trump per DoJ protocols. If there is enough evidence, Mr Trump would presumably be listed as an unindicted person with evidence of criminal activities.

Every avenue of legal attack turns into a political problem, ergo my conclusion at this point (since I have not seen any evidence, and have to base my conclusion on public reporting, and the political atmosphere) is the Republicans would not charge Mr Trump (and so there would be no impeachment proceedings).

As much as I find it distasteful to have a religious nut but politically rational person as president, it is far better than having Mr Trump as president, and yet I see no chance of removing Mr Trump, even if the Democrats win the House and tilt at windmills. There will not be enough Republicans in the Senate to convict.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306768 - 05/18/18 09:13 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Why not? Lots of Congressional Republicans have actually made statements to private sources about Trump sh1tting on them. They have a perfectly good Republican VP who is likely to go along with any conservative bill they want to pass, and he's not a huge liability who is destroying their party. When Mueller files his report and names Trump as a un-indicted co-conspirator for dozens of crimes, and new House Democrats do impeach him, it will ALL come out. Mueller could also indict dozens of Trump administration figures. A Democratic House will have wall-to-wall investigating committees actually calling on all those witnesses the Republican committees chose to ignore, and their reports will spell it all out in excruciating detail. Think the Senate will refuse to act?

We'll see. Trumps rap sheet will be nothing like sort of lying about a BJ.

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#306770 - 05/18/18 11:07 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
it's politics

think about the change in mood of the Republican base ... huge chunk is full blown crazy Trump supporters .... it is a cult of personality.

Why would these same folks not support the religious nut VP Pence? Cult of personality.

Republican Congressmen recognize political realities ... they need the crazy folks in the base to maintain power, so they will not endanger their chances with them and they will gladly suffer from the indignities of the host of the reality show on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Democratic Senate:: the probabilities of the Democrats winning a majority in Senate is small, but suppose they did ... say 51. They would need another 16 Republicans to vote for conviction. I can name maybe 5 who would vote for, so can you name another 11? Not so easy.

Political reality plays a big part of this. Consider the actions of Sen McConnell. Neither he nor Rep Ryan have brought up any legislation they believe would not pass and be signed by Mr Trump. Think about that for a sec.

Now suppose the Democrats fulfill your wildest dreams and take the House and Senate (barely at best). So in my opinion the political calculus looks like this ... The House would probably vote for charges to be brought against Mr Trump. This is to placate the base (I mean you gotta do something) ... then reality sets in ... in the Senate whoever the majority speaker should be, they would have to consider the perception of the proceedings as well as the political consequences. Why would the spkr conduct a trial for which he would suspect a conviction is at best just out of reach? The political consequences of that for voters would be to enrage Trumps base. Would any prosecutor go to trial knowing the jury is almost guaranteed to vote for acquittal?

I am trying to think of any actions Mr Trump could have done or would do which would convince Republicans to abandon their savior and I can not. He has probably committed all manner of white collar crimes ... and all anyone says is hohum. In addition, suppose SP Mueller finds pix of Mr Trump kissing Putin, finds the contract for the sale of America to Russia, and the plans for the largest financial theft ever, AG Sessions would have to approve filing charges.

Clearly one of the most disconcerting situations in American history. We have a president who may be de facto above the law (or more aptly escape the consequences of the law) not from Constitutional considerations but from situational realities. Incredible!!!
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306771 - 05/18/18 04:16 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: rporter314]
Kaine Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 2145
Loc: Pennsylvania
Heh. I can hardly wait to see what the NEXT president gets away with. rolleyes

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#306772 - 05/18/18 05:31 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Fidelity crisis. The Constitution tells us what we need to do, but the lawmakers lack the political stomach to carry out the demands of the law of the land.
Constitutional rot, brought to you by "CON-rot". (*thank you Logtroll!)


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (05/19/18 02:53 AM)
Edit Reason: Correction - Logtroll
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306773 - 05/18/18 07:00 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Just read headlines from an aggregator news site and became depressed.

Trump orders PMG to double rates on Amazon to punish rival Bezos
Surge in overseas revenues for Trump properties
Trump in clear violation of Emoluments clause .... CHina funding

and to repeat the proverbial and apparently no longer valid .... where is the outrage?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306774 - 05/19/18 12:33 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8800
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Harrumph! ConROT is copyrighted by Logtroll, sir!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306775 - 05/19/18 02:54 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13153
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Harrumph! ConROT is copyrighted by Logtroll, sir!


I am SO sorry! Edited and corrected!
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306776 - 05/19/18 04:09 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: Kaine]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
I can hardly wait to see what the NEXT president gets away with.


Former WWE star wrestler President Macho Camacho screws a donkey on live TV to show his contempt for the Democratic Wimp Party. Then the Good Ole' Party boys butcher it and make barbeque for everybody at the White House Lawn Festival.

Lynching and whiskey sampling afterwards.

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#306777 - 05/19/18 06:17 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40892
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Quote:
What it will take to curb the President?

Nothing. The President is above the law. We can only 25th the President or we can convict after impeachment. That's all the Constitution allows. Hmm

Why do you think that Fatass wants to be President for life? gobsmacked
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#306794 - 05/20/18 08:30 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
It's especially ironic that Trump tweets that an FBI informant in his campaign is bigger than Watergate. I suspect he thinks Watergate was some sort of fake news story concocted by the FBI to bring Nixon down.

I got news for you, Donald: The FBI uses informants ALL THE TIME. Sometimes they are undercover agents sent in by the FBI to infiltrate criminal organizations, but more often they are just people who realize they are involved unwittingly with some criminal activities and report it to the FBI. Either way, there is nothing bad about being the informant or the FBI. If there was an FBI informant in your campaign it suggests there were real crimes going on by members of your campaign.

Yes Donald, the crimes of your campaign and administration are bigger than Watergate. More people are going to prison for longer sentences, because there are a lot more crimes.

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#306795 - 05/20/18 08:41 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 302
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
It's especially ironic that Trump tweets that an FBI informant in his campaign is bigger than Watergate. I suspect he thinks Watergate was some sort of fake news story concocted by the FBI to bring Nixon down.

I got news for you, Donald: The FBI uses informants ALL THE TIME. Sometimes they are undercover agents sent in by the FBI to infiltrate criminal organizations, but more often they are just people who realize they are involved unwittingly with some criminal activities and report it to the FBI. Either way, there is nothing bad about being the informant or the FBI. If there was an FBI informant in your campaign it suggests there were real crimes going on by members of your campaign.

Yes Donald, the crimes of your campaign and administration are bigger than Watergate. More people are going to prison for longer sentences, because there are a lot more crimes.



Bow LOL Bow


Edited by Ujest Shurly (05/20/18 08:43 PM)
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#306850 - 05/30/18 04:50 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
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I know this thread was sort of moribund, but I needed to vent today. There are two things that occurred that I had to address: first, it appears that Rudy Giuliani has conceded that there will be enough evidence of misconduct to impeach the President (As if we didn't believe that anyway); second, Trump may have set a record for lies today. The latest is so brazen it's despicable - that Democrats are responsible for HIS administration's obscene behavior toward immigrants and asylum seekers. It is also, by the way, a clear violation of international law.
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#306854 - 05/30/18 03:08 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
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Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 302
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
From many years of hearing about Trump, now President Donald (Pseudologia fantastica and mythomania)Trump, violations of local, national or international law will not bother him. After all, he is "The Donald" and is above it all.


Vote this November, vote Independent or Democrat, just vote to curb this rabid slug.
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#306856 - 05/30/18 09:45 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Trying to curb Mr Trump is rather pointless. I suspected as much after a few days of his "presidency". I could see it happening in the Trump thread. It would eventually consume Doug's servers. Mr Trump owns the media ... I mean he owns it. Trump 24/7.

How would it be possible to find a breath of fresh honest air when he sucked all the oxygen from the room?

I still can not find any evidence of crumbling political support for Mr Trump. If the Dems take the House and file charges the Senate would not convict.

Folks ... gotta take it to the box
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#306857 - 05/30/18 10:01 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
matthew Offline
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Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 347
'
I think the only thing that would work would be to give him a lobotomy --- or perhaps confiscating all his bank accounts and assets would have the same effect.
.
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#306862 - 05/31/18 03:33 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: rporter314]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
I still can not find any evidence of crumbling political support for Mr Trump.

Article in Salon ("Evidence is growing that Trump doesn’t have the votes to survive impeachment in the Senate") argues I am wrong.

I could be wrong ... wouldn't be the first time ... I'll temporize and keep my ear to the ground
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#306867 - 06/01/18 12:39 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
OMG, Trump’s pardons show his twisted brand of mercy. This has got to stop. I no longer think impeachment is NOT an option. This level of naked corruption has no parallel outside of banana republics and Russia.

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#306871 - 06/01/18 01:34 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
I think you have to look at life as a Republican in Congress after Trump is impeached with a huge list of valid reasons, but then a naked partisan failure to convict in the Senate. Could they ever go back home and face their constituents at Town Meetings? Would their home offices get firebombed? Would they ever get reelected for ANY office? Would their Wikipedia entries, web sites, and social media get trashed every day for the rest of their lives? I think it would be political suicide personally and destroy the GOP brand for decades. They would become the equivalent of the American Nazi Party in most people's minds.

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#306872 - 06/01/18 05:16 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

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Registered: 08/03/04
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Loc: Whittier, California
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#306880 - 06/01/18 03:01 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
This has got to stop

and yet the Republican Band plays on ... I see only 3 stacks as she enters the vertical plane
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#306881 - 06/01/18 03:10 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I think this has to be one of the strangest political coups of all time.

Establishment Republicans apparently were completely unaware or were in denial of their constituency. Still today we find Republicans who talk about there not being racists and bigots in the party ... really???

One of the prime motivations has been the bigotry associated with illegal immigration which tapped into other long borne hostilities by a class of people who have been under assault by the forces of history, economics and societal evolution. Recognizing the changed texture of their constituents has forced Establishment Republicans to cower and acquiesce to the demands of their constituents for fear of losing their seat of power. While nativism and populism is on the rise it is also the seed of its own destruction. Historical evolution favors adaptability. Think long term.

HOLD FAST
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#306893 - 06/03/18 06:55 PM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
It would be interesting if some state would charge a person who Trump pardoned for the same crime: They have already admitted guilt, when they accept the pardon. Would that be a slam-dunk prosecution, or would it just be sentencing under state laws because they already pleaded guilty?

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#306946 - 06/09/18 01:45 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
Manafort and his Russian buddy are going to jail. His bail will be revoked for trying to tamper with witnesses. This was after his indictment and bail hearing. Judges really hate witness tampering and perjury. It threatens the integrity of the judicial system, which every judge (R or D) is dedicated to. They have to make sure he stops committing additional crimes, so it's pretty much a slam-dunk it's orange jumpsuit time.

Want to get the maximum possible sentence? This is how you do it. I doubt you would get more time for threatening the judge. Besides, a 20 year sentence is a great incentive to other potential defendants.

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#306947 - 06/09/18 02:06 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 302
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
It would be interesting if some state would charge a person who Trump pardoned for the same crime: They have already admitted guilt, when they accept the pardon. Would that be a slam-dunk prosecution, or would it just be sentencing under state laws because they already pleaded guilty?


I think that would be Double Jeopardy.
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Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

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#306949 - 06/09/18 03:56 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Not double jeopardy.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306955 - 06/09/18 05:48 AM Re: What it will take to curb the President [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7620
Loc: North San Diego County
It's only double jeopardy when a government entity charges you with the same crime after you are found innocent by that entity. When federal and state laws are both broken, both may charge you and try you. Most of these crimes took place in a state that can file charges.

We should remember that most prisoners are in state custody, and most executions are state executions. There is nothing half-assed about state prosecution.

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