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#305722 - 02/23/18 01:15 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6525
Loc: Highlands, Tx
maybe i am weird or maybe i haven't thought about this enough

i don't see guns as some fantasy. i feel it is a part of something primordial (at least with me) and is included with other activities like throwing rocks, firing nail guns, shooting bb guns, pellet guns, etc and not necessarily at anything in particular ... maybe something humans as animals do ... an extension of one's self? an extension of some added value as more powerful ... do some people have a need for more power?

as an aside do conservative have this fantasy and liberals do not?

if i had a fantasy about any of those i would be fondling one of them ... sorry does nothing for me
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305725 - 02/23/18 03:51 PM Re: How Many? [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16236
It wasn't intentional, but I had the opportunity to see parts of Dana Loesch's and Wayne LaPierre's CPAC speeches yesterday. OMG these people really are off the rails. If you can (stomach it), is try to find them. This is beyond fanaticism, folks. It's derangement. I'm not exaggerating invoking Hitler here. Talk about "danger to themselves or others". Hoo boy!

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#305734 - 02/24/18 01:19 AM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6525
Loc: Highlands, Tx
i saw the cnn loesch interview ... lapierre has been a nut case for a while

i am still waiting for lapierre to tell the families of victims the 2nd amendment right of criminals, violent people, irresponsible people, mentally unstable people to own guns is more important than the right to life of their children. i think conservatives like to use the phrase "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" as 3 essential rights of citizens from the DOI and yet the DOI does not mention guns. If life is so important to the Founders, why is the sale of so many guns, which does impact my life, not controlled?

notice Mr Trump sat oblivious to the Australian PM's statement regarding their control of auto and semi auto weapons which essentially ended most of the gun related deaths.

i predict (and it doesn't take a genius for this) nothing will be done
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305776 - 02/26/18 07:08 PM Re: How Many? [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16236
Originally Posted By: rporter314
i predict (and it doesn't take a genius for this) nothing will be done
SADLY, I concur. This argument is not about causality. It is not about policy. It is not about rationality. It is about fear. Not even rational fear.

The Gun Lobby wants people to fear something that has never happened, and is unlikely to happen. It is not something even being asked for. They have one job, and that is to sell guns. If people are not afraid, they don't buy guns. Statistically, fewer people in America are less afraid, and thus gun sales are to fewer and fewer really afraid Americans.

Rational people are afraid, too. They are afraid of real things that are happening to real people, and they want to do something about it. The proposals are modest: Bump Stocks - should be illegal, but not interpreted that way. Las Vegas demonstrated that in spades. Background checks are not reliable - Sandy Hook and Parkland demonstrated that. Armed officers are not sufficient - every incident has demonstrated that.

What is effective is strict gun regulation. Everyone knows that. Especially the gun lobby. That strikes the fear of god into their puny little hearts.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305823 - 03/02/18 12:51 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16236
The number of Americans buying guns has fallen dramatically over the last few decades, despite sales spiking over the last decade (when that black fellow was in office). It appears, however, that we've reached a saturation point. Gun manufacturers are in trouble.

Remington has filed for bankruptcy. Smith and Wesson sales are off 40%, and stock prices have tanked (down 50% in a month). Smith & Wesson Gun Sales Are in Free Fall. It's true across the board: Gun stocks slammed as companies and funds distance themselves from industry.

After Dick’s, Only One Major Retailer Is Still Selling Semi-Automatic Assault Rifles.
Quote:

In 2006, Walmart stopped selling guns at roughly one-third of its stores, citing “diminished customer relevancy.”
Walmart actually stopped selling assault weapons in 2015

The NRA's gravy train is reaching is terminal. Even the gun lobby's main lobbying group, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, is losing steam. Maybe we're turning a corner?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#305825 - 03/02/18 05:25 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14278
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Maybe we're turning a corner?

Maybe even when government fails to legislate change it can come about naturally.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#305826 - 03/02/18 08:05 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6525
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Not sure these stats are good indicators or predictors.

For instance ... NICS checks are up, which suggests either more new guns are sold or more old guns are traded/sold between people. So S&W sales are down, but if you notice gun sales always go down when a Republican is elected (the NRA has sold the paranoid the delusion Pres Obama is still going to get their guns) or H&K or Glock are selling more guns.

If fear is a driving force for the paranoia of conservative gun owners, then I would expect them to continue buying even if they have 20 guns (one for each finger and toe). Consider that 50% of guns owned are owned by just 3% of people. Will that 3% continue to support the gun industry? These folks live in extreme fear the evil empire is after them, so my conclusion is yes.

However we may have reached an inflection point suggested by your stats i.e. the market may be driving the direction of the discussion.

I am a lot hesitant about declaring a victory when only one battle has been fought. I need to see substantive legislation and some good stats for a couple of years before I can check the rear view mirror and say 2018 was the year in which gun sanity came calling on Americans.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#305828 - 03/02/18 11:19 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16236
I agree that it's too early to celebrate, but it is interesting that the market is reflecting public shifts in attitude. The number of gun owners has been declining since the 70s, but not gun sales. The proportion of the population owning guns is about the same as supporters of Trump. I think the market has actually reached the saturation point. Now they're just moving around.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306460 - 04/22/18 07:22 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16236
"Four people were killed and four others injured when a man naked from the waist down and wielding an assault-style rifle... " But, it's not the gun...

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#306462 - 04/22/18 08:14 PM Re: How Many? [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2139
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nratv

nratv might amuse (if you haven't watched it before)

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