Current Topics
Voters
by Greger
Today at 05:31 PM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2018
by NW Ponderer
Today at 05:53 AM
The chosen one?
by Greger
Yesterday at 11:09 PM
The Magic of Biochar
by Greger
10/13/18 07:08 PM
Kavanaugh and the FBI
by rporter314
10/11/18 03:56 AM
The Midterms
by chunkstyle
10/11/18 02:53 AM
Roundtable for October 2018
by Jeffery J. Haas
10/10/18 06:34 PM
The Blindness of Good intentions
by jgw
10/09/18 09:26 PM
Trump’s ‘New’ Can-Mex Trade Deal Has All Kinds Of Improvements? Thanks, Obama
by jgw
10/09/18 05:35 PM
The End of the Independent Judiciary
by pdx rick
10/07/18 02:55 PM
Tiny Hawaiian Gecko Accidentally Calls 'a Bazillion' People from Hospital Phone,
by Greger
10/07/18 01:09 AM
That Bombshell Report on Trump's Taxes May Spark an Investigation by New York
by Jeffery J. Haas
10/05/18 05:03 AM
A time when politics were not all about greed
by jgw
10/04/18 07:28 PM
George Will: Abolish the death penalty
by Greger
10/03/18 12:28 AM
if the Dems take over
by Greger
10/01/18 09:55 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Golem
09/30/18 08:15 PM
Answer (Fredric Brown, 1954)
by jgw
09/28/18 06:24 PM
RoundTable for September 2018
by NW Ponderer
09/28/18 11:24 AM
Code for no black people': New York bar's 'racist' dress code sparks online deba
by Greger
09/26/18 05:11 PM
Our modern Sinclair Lewis?
by pondering_it_all
09/26/18 07:10 AM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16398 Topics
282309 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#306056 - 03/18/18 06:23 PM Are we really insane?
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2131
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I wonder, is the United States insane? This is, I think, a fair question. How about, for starters, the "if you keep on doing the same thing, over and over, and expect different results you are crazy" thing. We do that one with vigor.

A trillion dollar war on drugs that can't even keep the price of drugs up is over 40 years old! Drug use is not down, we are spending more on them and we also 'importing' more. the war on drugs is also responsible for most of the drug deaths because criminals, and not regulated drug manufacturers are providing the drugs which are getting progressively more dangerous. One would think, on the face of it, that we would see what others have done, specifically Purtugal, who seems to have fixed their problem by simply deciding drugs were a health problem.

We have an 18 year, trillion dollar war going in Afghanistan. From reports we get the military continues to repeat their 'plans for victory', over and over, and we get the same results, over and over - flat out failure even though 'victory' seems to be a moving target and, as far as I can tell, nobody even actually has a clue as to what 'victory' is! Afghanistan has been called "The Graveyard of Empires" which, as far as I can tell, flat out right. They defeated Alexander the Great and the British Empire, at the height of its power, and everybody in between. We, with hubris, lies, and our continuing devotion to the military industrial complex, just keep on fighting a war that can not only not won but even the concept of 'winning' seems to be somewhat of a mystery.

Then there is the gun thing. In 2016 we had over 38,000 gun deaths and 2017 there will be more. No other nation has these kinds of numbers without actually being in the throes of war, invasion or civil war. The clue here is REALLY plain, other countries do not experience this sort of thing because THEY REGULATE AND CONTROL THEIR GUNS! Its another one of them "here we go again" things. The rest of the world does not have our experience because they regulate and control their guns! All the other so-called arguments are just plain silly, and have NOTHING to do with our gun problem and simply distracts. The last country to deal with their gun problem was Australia. When they did that their gun violence tanked. All this stuff is public knowledge. The question is REALLY simple. If the rest of the world doesn't have anywhere near the same problems we do with guns, and the difference is regulating them, then what are we doing? Why, basically, acting like crazy, ignoramuses, incapable to doing what is right to protect ourselves.

We have a president who lies between 70% and 85% of the time. WE elected this man to office even though we knew this simple fact. Right now over 40% of the voters support this man. He is also supported by the main Pentecostal organization (fundamental religious), won over 50% of the female vote even though he is personally committed to their degradation, use, and denigration. I can go on and on about our president, the lying jackass, but we all know about this. Basically this is, as far as I can see, yet another example of national insanity.

Oh, one last one. We have been recently gifted with a 'tax plan', and budget. it moves over a trillion dollars to the richest amongst us. To accomplish that one we are reducing, right now, Medicare and Medicaid to the tune of 35 billion dollars EACH year. We have increased our military BUDGET by more money than any other country in the entire world! (and that's just the increase!) We have done this even though our infrastructure is failing, our schools are broke, and our healthcare is so bad that our projected life expectancy is actually declining, unlike the rest of the industrialized world. The really interesting thing is that much of the support, of the Lying Jackass, is actually from the very people who are dependent on Medicare, Medicaid, etc. I know people like this. When I tell them about the cuts their reply is simply, "I don't believe that". My assumption is that once they feel the results they will change their minds but, as far as I can tell, that assumption would be wrong and blame would be assigned elsewhere.

As an aside I would point out that the rest of the industrialized nations of the world have seriously reduced their healthcare costs by 1)making healthcare a social rather than for-profit industry, 2)regulating all facets of healthcare, and 3)providing tax payer funded, free, healthcare. Not us! Apparently we are trying to privatize our healthcare instead (making it more expensive!).

I can go on and on about this stuff but, pretty much, I betcha, you get the message. AS far as I can determine one of the main reasons is that we have a two party system and one, the right, fights, lies, and spends with abandon and with no problem. The left, on the other hand fights back by not actually fighting. They call the right on none of their claims and lies because, apparently they don't want to make anybody angry. I think that Hillary mirrors the problem pretty good. When Hillary told the coal folks the facts she acdtually felt bad about that and tried to roll it back! When she debated the Lying Jazckass she ALLOWED the man to bully her with nary even a little whine. The woman has been maligned for over 30 years are she just ignores it. As demonstrated by Hillary, the left is simply not capable of fighting back with any vigor and spends most of its time begging their supporters to actually vote! This seems to say that they are above all that ill mannered stuff. The result is that the right has been able to claim anything, lie to their heart's content, for, literally, years and years. The result is a genuine lack of faith in government, everybody fighting with one another (parties are at it but, even within the parties too!). I do not understand why, if somebody is a public figure (politician, tv/movie star, etc) then its ok to lie about them with impunity. This is not true, for instance, in the UK, as well as most other industrialized countries. We, however, not only expect the lies but almost half of us actually believe those same lies. This has been going on for so long that we expect it and it has become 'normalized'.

We should all recognize, as Hitler said; "If you tell a lie loud enough, and long enough, the lie becomes fact". The right has used this for years and its really paid off - for the righteous Republicans.

I suspect that if a professional mental health expert would examine the nation as he/she would an individual, that the results would not be far off 'insane'. I wonder, is this the way great empires fail? Do they simply, over time, implode? We are a democracy, the people are, in theory in charge. Given how we are behaving I would humbly submit that we gotta a problem!

Oh, this stuff is real. Its easily found on the net if you are at all interested.



Edited by jgw (03/21/18 07:16 PM)

Top
#306302 - 04/09/18 09:21 PM Re: Are we really insane? [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2131
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I thought I would add one more to my list of national insanities. This one is for prison, and paroles. First some references:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/01/why-sweden-closing-prisons
https://www.theatlantic.com/internationa...uperior/279949/
https://thecrimereport.org/2017/07/20/want-to-end-mass-incarceration-fix-probation-and-parole/\

The United States continues to incarcerate a larger percentage of its population than ANY other country in the world! The latest offense in this effort to be #1 is the 'private prison'. I know a guy who was a guard in prisons in Bulgaria during the Russian occupation. Then he moved to the United States and has been a prison guard in one of the private prisons in California for a few years. He recently quit due to the company saving money and putting guards at risk. He no longer felt safe and quit! The United states also has the highest rate of recidivism in the world. What we are doing, according to many, is not only failing in fixing our criminal problem but actually making sure that them that break the law keep on doing that because they have no other recourse. The problems of surviving once out of prison, due to the system, is virtually impossible except for a few truly amazing people. If you read the above (google "prison not the answer" for more) you will understand better what is going on.

In Arizona, they have changed how they handle parole and, as a result, they have actually cut their costs by a huge amount whilst, at the same time, cutting recidivism by a huge amount. Countries in Northern Europe are actually starting to shut down existing prisons due to a real reduction in criminals by NOT doing what we are doing. We currently have, for instance, an Attorney General who is determined to increase the number of prisoners, thereby enriching shareholders in the private prison scam.

Top
#306310 - 04/10/18 12:38 AM Re: Are we really insane? [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7923
Loc: North San Diego County
I saw an article in the paper yesterday about denying Medicare coverage for opiate prescriptions longer than 30 days. The government has once again decided to do the stupid thing because it is easy. Ignore the fact that people with chronic pain really need a way to control it. Instead they suggest ibuprofen!

The "opiate problem" is mostly a product of cutting chronic pain victims off prescription pain meds and driving them to black market heroin with unknown Fentanyl or even car-Fentanyl content. People with prescription pain pills know what they are getting, so they very rarely overdose. Driving them away from known dosages is the height of insanity.

I predict even more death because of this stupid policy. Even if they are not willing to seek heroin, I bet more and more vets and elderly decide self-immolation on the Capital Steps is preferable to constant pain.

And what's up with the Veterans Administration? They KNOW VERY WELL they could move a lot of vets off opiates or vastly reduce their need by prescribing cannabis. We have medical marijuana in lots of states now, but vets who use it are subject to harassment and getting cut off from VA treatments. This is insane. It's the one thing that could help with the opiate problem.

Top
#306312 - 04/10/18 12:56 AM Re: Are we really insane? [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 974
There is no left though there's a new one struggling to form itself. We have centrist/right democrats and far right republicans. The left has been systematically dismantled for decades now. Hence the reality we are in.


Edited by chunkstyle (04/10/18 01:01 AM)

Top
#306329 - 04/10/18 08:33 PM Re: Are we really insane? [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16233
jgw That is truly a rant worthy of our name!
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#306331 - 04/10/18 09:22 PM Re: Are we really insane? [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2131
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think the problem with the left is that its got a lot more youth than the right. Many of the youth see things as a single dimension and everything is absolute (I know, this is mean spirited and painting an entire group). That being said, this seems to be what happened when bernie was not loved by the entire Democratic party. The result was that the supposed group of youthful Bernie supporters hated Hillary (basically, I think, they bought into the baloney of the right about her because, I think, social media is so full of conspiracies, lies, and just plain crap). That being the case they were also at least partially responible for the jackass winning. I was not exactly delighted with her myself but I voted for her anyway because the only other viable choice was the jackass.

The answer is pretty simple, and, I suspect, very difficult. Somehow those that do not agree with what the Republicans are doing (ie. "the right") then they should vote Democratic whether the like the Democratic candidate or not. I think its that simple. I am also sure that everybody will probably not agree with that. It would be interesting that those that do not agree might explain why and offer a different option that can actually win.

In other words I think that the actions of the Republicans, and the right, have created a 'left' whether anybody recognizes that or not. There is only one home for those not in agreement with what is currently going on. If they don't fight back the good old USA is going to end up a refuge for dictators, haters, and all the rest of that stuff.

Some of my own reasons for my belief and the actions of the right that makes me think this are:
wrecking the environment
apparent belief that war is the answer
Racism
lies about immigrants
Irrational hate of several groups
Constant lies and innuendo
Dislike of science

I could go on and on but, that's basically it..........



Edited by jgw (04/10/18 09:25 PM)

Top
#306339 - 04/10/18 11:10 PM Re: Are we really insane? [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7923
Loc: North San Diego County
Maybe the real reason the ultra-left is dead, is that the Soviet Union no longer exists. They identified at least somewhat with the Communists, but now Russia is run by a fascist dictator. Maybe it always was, but in any event there is no longer anything left of left.

Now the only "left" countries are places like Scandanavia, which is rather weak tea for the hard-core leftist. So we have people who like Sweden on one extreme and people who like Hitler on the other. Admiring Sweden is so innocuous, that the current left in this country seems pretty centrist.

Top
#306348 - 04/11/18 01:44 AM Re: Are we really insane? [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 974
There's been a lot of reporting on the Sanders yute vote costing the Annointed one her election JGW. It should be remembered that more Hillary primary voters went for Romney in the general than Bernie voters went for Trump. That largest demographic of Sanders primary supporters that went for Trump in the key battle ground states (which Sanders won in the primaries by the way) were older white male boomers.
PIA, is the Ultra Left the same as the Alt Left?


Edited by chunkstyle (04/11/18 02:23 AM)

Top
#306357 - 04/11/18 07:22 PM Re: Are we really insane? [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16233
The short answer to the question is, yes. DJT is proof of that. The issue, then, is, can we be cured?

Somewhere, someone has noted that the basic tenet of representative democracy is that our representatives reflect the views and interests of their constituents. Our current system does not do that, although I stubbornly believe it can. There are anti-democratic forces hard at work undermining that system, and they are legion: corporations, think tanks, the Republican party, foreign governments, social movements, religions.

There is, though, an awakening of sorts going on. There was the women's march, black lives matter, occupy, #metoo, and now the Parkland kids. While these are discrete movements, they are rowing in the same direction. Combine them and we have a real movement. I'm hoping it is a generational change.

I had a conversation today with my son about how different his world is from mine. He's starting out in the work world and I'm retiring from it. By his age I was on my 11th job, and first career, was married and had bought a house. His opportunities are much narrower, and his prospects are less visible. Even with a college degree and savings in the bank, it's just plain harder.

But something about his and the following generation - they're much more level-headed. So, yes, we've been insane. But, the kids are alright. They've got this.

Top
#306360 - 04/12/18 02:30 AM Re: Are we really insane? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14273
Loc: Florida
Quote:
the kids are alright. They've got this.

I think you're right.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 51 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2