Current Topics
shutdown confusion
by pondering_it_all
Today at 06:54 AM
The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist?
by chunkstyle
Today at 03:13 AM
Trump administration fights humanity
by rporter314
Yesterday at 11:18 PM
RoundTable for January 2019
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 08:33 PM
Right to life march
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 08:19 PM
Justice is coming
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 08:10 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 07:56 PM
It is time to consider impeachment
by jgw
Yesterday at 07:49 PM
The Shutdown Is Mitch McConnell's Fault
by jgw
01/20/19 08:53 PM
A Judge Blocked the Census From Asking About Citizenship. Here's Why It Matters
by Greger
01/19/19 04:55 PM
The Green New Deal, explained
by jgw
01/18/19 10:20 PM
‘Forgiveness is better:’ SC restaurant owner poses with man who robbed business
by Golem
01/18/19 05:42 PM
William Barr should be a convict, not Attorney General
by NW Ponderer
01/18/19 05:13 PM
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by Jeffery J. Haas
01/18/19 05:51 AM
Collusion has now been shown. What now?
by pondering_it_all
01/17/19 12:12 AM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2019
by Golem
01/16/19 06:15 PM
Gregory Benford Wins 2019 Robert A. Heinlein Award
by Golem
01/15/19 07:07 PM
Trump's Wall Shutdown IS his policy
by pondering_it_all
01/14/19 06:59 PM
GoFundMe Wall campaign collapses: fraud campaign substituted
by pondering_it_all
01/12/19 07:20 PM
Our Embarrasment of a White House
by pondering_it_all
01/11/19 07:00 PM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16468 Topics
283864 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 2 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#306598 - 05/04/18 09:05 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13505
Loc: Whittier, California
I get that whole trope about how voting for the lesser of two evils begets more evil. What I don't get is why so many on the Left don't understand that ENABLING the GREATER evil is even worse, and by not voting for the lesser of two evils, you do enable the GREATER evil.
I submit that voting for the lesser of two evils may, at least in some respects, bring you LESS evil than enabling the GREATER evil.
The Nirvana fallacy is not a rock to cling to in a hurricane.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#306599 - 05/04/18 10:40 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14490
Loc: Florida
meh...in this case enabling the greatest evil might have been for the best.
Hillary would have done great things for the left. Brilliant foriegn policy, higher wages, advances in health care, and a tax reform that actually helped middle America. But the right would have fought every step of the way, just like with Obama.
Clinton might have actually strengthened the Republican Party with their unanimous hatred for her. I guess the hard left really bought into everything the Russians were selling about Clinton because they hate her just as much as they do. Way I see it the enemy of my enemy is my friend
Trump is gonna facK everything up royal. He's going to damage Republicans for years to come. Even in the fairly near term we might make more progressive gains without Clinton shoehorned between the last Democratic and the next Republican administration which would surely have happened if Clinton had won. The way things are headed now we might get a full four terms of Democratic control after Trump finally burns himself out and takes his party out him.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#306602 - 05/05/18 02:08 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41100
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
...Hillary would have done great things for the left. Brilliant foriegn policy, higher wages, advances in health care, and a tax reform that actually helped middle America...


ROTFMOL

gobsmacked
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#306604 - 05/05/18 02:41 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8163
Loc: North San Diego County
I think it will be a generation before Republicans recover. Just look at how the Nazis were treated after WW II in America. They were hiding in basements and having secret meetings for decades. Even the KKK would have nothing to do with them.

Top
#306607 - 05/05/18 03:53 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1244
It was a upper Midwestern lefty socialist that was sounding the alarm about Trump and the poor campaign being run by Clinton. The refusal of the Democratic establishment to take him seriously and dismiss his warnings was the critical error of hubris and mind palace thinking that still infects clinton supporters to this day.
Unable to come to terms with their flawed political thinking they put the blame for their candidates loss everywhere but where it should exist. The candidate herself and right wing centrism that proved as inspirational to the voters as LBJ's bucket of warm spit.
My favorite Democratic right wing tropes are Russia! Russia! Russia! and Bernie voters.

It echoes the hubris and delusional thinking that plagued her campaign strategy.

But I dunno, losing the Supreme Court for a generation, the House, the Senate, the executive should seem bad but Nawp! Gunna be the best thing ever. Heck, it should all but assure right wing Dems an easy romp. From the smoking crater of the Republican Party will come 2,3,4 terms of executive dominance.
Based on what?!
Democratic right wing centrism?
More mind palace building while all objective indicator needles move into the red.



Edited by chunkstyle (05/05/18 03:55 AM)

Top
#306609 - 05/05/18 05:06 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1244
I find it helpful to go back and read from those that nailed events before they came to pass. It can be instructive. Not so much with centrists

They will blame...


Edited by chunkstyle (05/05/18 05:06 AM)

Top
#306611 - 05/06/18 03:34 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13505
Loc: Whittier, California
Quote:
That is the task ahead. The Democratic party needs to be either decisively wrested from pro-corporate neoliberals, or it needs to be abandoned. From Elizabeth Warren to Nina Turner, to the Occupy alumni who took the Bernie campaign supernova, there is a stronger field of coalition-inspiring progressive leaders out there than at any point in my lifetime. We are “leaderful”, as many in the Movement for Black Lives say.


Are you all ready to do the generational work to create an actual third party that does more than siphon votes away for the opposition (*usually Republicans) by crawling out from hibernation every 3.5 years to pretend at a White House run?

This is real work, y'all...putting 3rd party people in seats in state houses, in local government, and in Congress.

If you're not prepared to do that, then get ready to transform the Democratic Party instead, otherwise it is all just talk.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#306612 - 05/06/18 03:48 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14490
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Democratic right wing centrism?


Yep. Because that's all your gonna get. You can dream of a socialist utopia but it aint gonna happen in my lifetime or yours.

I will remind you once again that politics is the art of the possible.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#306613 - 05/06/18 04:40 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13505
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Democratic right wing centrism?


Yep. Because that's all your gonna get. You can dream of a socialist utopia but it aint gonna happen in my lifetime or yours.

I will remind you once again that politics is the art of the possible.



The Soviets claimed to be socialists, the Nazis claimed to be socialists, Sanders claims to be a socialist, Venezuela claims to be socialist, France has a socialist party and a socialist government, but none of the people or places actually meet the definition of a socialist or socialism.

And I think that for Americans, it doesn't really matter beyond us just gleaning a couple of minor tweaks to use in the capitalist system to tilt it more in favor of the middle class. Outside of that, you'd be looking at converting our entire economy into something we've never tried in almost 250 years, and I don't think it would go well.

Countries which are capitalist but which have added a small smidgeon of quasi-socialist spice to their capitalism seem to do pretty well.
We did it and it worked beautifully, and I think we ought to try it again, and soon.
But going whole hog socialist? Naaah, I think it's a bad experiment for the United States.
And, I doubt it would ever gain traction anyway, for a wide variety of reasons.

But again, the biggest reason seems to be that we did very well just tweaking our capitalist system with just a dash of small s socialism and stopping at just that. It was a hybrid and it was very healthy.

And as for the Right wing, now that Americans have witnessed them in all their vulgar philistine glory, there will be a reckoning, and it will be very bad for the Right.
And whether or not we go socialist has little if anything to do with the fact that Americans will not tolerate this level of nastiness.
The repudiation of the Right will be swift, just and irrevocable.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#306614 - 05/06/18 12:18 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1244
" I will remind you once again that politics is the art of the possible."



Politics is a battle for resources.
You just witnessed a trillion dollar tax break benefitting the very rich with broad unpopular support being accomplished.
Stop trying to manage lowered expectations while punching left and this country could make some true progress with more equitable and humane distribution of resources, more public space and just laws.


Edited by chunkstyle (05/06/18 12:24 PM)

Top
Page 2 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 60 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2