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#306549 - 05/01/18 06:45 PM Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13294
Loc: Whittier, California
Richard Painter, former George W. Bush ethics lawyer, has announced that he is running for Al Franken's seat as a Democrat.
And not just any Democrat, a Democratic Farm Labor Party Democrat (DFL)

USA Today LINK

Based on what I've observed these last six months from his appearances, Richard Painter is NOT going to BE a person who tries to fight the liberal wing of the party.
He is big picture all the way and I'd have to say more independent than anything else.
In fact, I wonder if his recent appearance on Maher influenced his decision because he sure was getting along famously with two very liberal people on the panel that night.

I would describe Painter as almost a JFK Democrat but if Paul Wellstone were still alive the two of them would get along famously even though Wellstone was much more liberal.
And that's because Wellstone was also big picture.
And the Democrat Farm Labor Party is definitely Wellstone's legacy.

The DFL has gone to great pains to preserve the Paul Wellstone legacy in everything that they do.

I am betting Bernie Sanders is going to like this guy a lot despite the possibility that they might be on different ends of the spectrum.

_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306554 - 05/01/18 08:46 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
George W. Bush's ethic lawyer??? Lord help us!
He's a center right republican that will further erode the democratic parties left flank.
Ef' him. They helped set the table for what we have now. Let them wander in the wilderness now. I would have preferred his political crises of conscience before we decided to invade Irag and kill hundreds of thousands.
Sadly, he will probably be let in to the Democratic party. Punching left while moving right since 1980.....

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#306572 - 05/03/18 01:08 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41039
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


What's wrong with the lady who took Al's place? Hmm


Never trust a Rethuglicon who switched to being a Democrat to run for office. coffee
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#306574 - 05/03/18 03:32 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: pdx rick]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
I've seen him on a lot of talk shows. He kind of speaks without intonation, like an automaton. But he has been a Republican voice virulently opposed to Trump and his policies.

He may be a breed we begin to see more of. Those Republicans who find Trump so aberrant that they can't march behind his banner.

I say, welcome to the ranks of sanity. Not sure you get to go to the front of the line.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#306578 - 05/03/18 11:43 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
Unfortunately Painter is the front of the line. An examination of the Democratic Party trajectory and it's current behavior in the primary races will show that. Painter is a milder form of candidate the Democratic Party has run and stood by. What the DCCC and DNC can't abide are true progressives and socialist. Those groups might upset their Donor class.
Like Rick says, what's wrong with the woman running on the democratic ticket? In fact, watch what the DSCC in this particular race does. Ideas and grass roots energy vs. 'Brand recognition' and good ol Ivy League connection?


Edited by chunkstyle (05/03/18 01:50 PM)

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#306580 - 05/03/18 12:49 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
A good article that shows how Democratic leadership welcoming vipers to their bosoms helped get us to to our current political situation

"It was Democrats in New York who taught both Cohn and Trump that they could buy off politicians and try to get away with anything."

The stink of the east coast liberals


Edited by chunkstyle (05/03/18 12:50 PM)

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#306582 - 05/03/18 08:20 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13294
Loc: Whittier, California
Tell you what, I grant you everything, Chunky...but if it helps unseat the Republicans and unseat Trump, any port in a storm.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306583 - 05/03/18 08:45 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973





Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with that strategy Jeff. After all, look at where it's gotten the country in the last 30 years...


Edited by chunkstyle (05/03/18 08:48 PM)

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#306590 - 05/04/18 04:14 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16232
I take exception. People's political views can, and do, change. Mine certainly have. Does anyone here even know what his political views are?

I'm not a huge Painter fan, but I'm not dismissing him, either. He supported All Franken, he's virulently anti-mining and stridently rule-of-law. Those are not bad attributes. (He holds other views I disagree with, like free trade-ism.)

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#306593 - 05/04/18 05:47 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14272
Loc: Florida
As the rats flee the sinking Republican Party we can expect to see a certain number of them crawling up the lines into the Democratic rescue ship. They will gather on the starboard side with those other like minded Democrats and the boat will list a little farther to the right. This should come as no surprise to Democrats. We've been trying for years to convince them that our way is the right way and they should switch parties. So let's not get too much up in arms when occasionally some of them listen to reason.

The Democratic Party is a moderate centrist party. Lefties(I'm looking at you Chunkstyle) would like to believe that there was a better time, (way back when America was great) when things were different and that rich guys running the government is a new thing.

America is a moderate centrist country. We've taken a bit of a swing to the right but it will ultimately backfire and we'll swing back to center in a few election cycles. With a little luck we may wind up a little left of center for a while. FDR went there but it took the Great Depression and World War II to do it. Then came the cold war and the great communist scare. The media instilled a visceral fear of communism and socialism which lingers to this day...and here we are right of center again with the most corrupt administration in our history.

So will we take a hard swing to the left to compensate? Nope. We'll slowly wander back to center. The excitable left will curse the Democrats, choose some misfit third party candidate to vote for and feel good about themselves because they voted their conscience.

Go for it yall. You just be you! Nader, Stein, and Bernie appreciated your support. Whoever pops up next will also enjoy their moment in your glowing spotlight. But they will change nothing, maybe even make things worse by their very presence.

But keep shouting out your truths.

They aren't less true because no one is listening, perhaps even more poignant for that very reason.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306598 - 05/04/18 09:05 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13294
Loc: Whittier, California
I get that whole trope about how voting for the lesser of two evils begets more evil. What I don't get is why so many on the Left don't understand that ENABLING the GREATER evil is even worse, and by not voting for the lesser of two evils, you do enable the GREATER evil.
I submit that voting for the lesser of two evils may, at least in some respects, bring you LESS evil than enabling the GREATER evil.
The Nirvana fallacy is not a rock to cling to in a hurricane.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306599 - 05/04/18 10:40 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14272
Loc: Florida
meh...in this case enabling the greatest evil might have been for the best.
Hillary would have done great things for the left. Brilliant foriegn policy, higher wages, advances in health care, and a tax reform that actually helped middle America. But the right would have fought every step of the way, just like with Obama.
Clinton might have actually strengthened the Republican Party with their unanimous hatred for her. I guess the hard left really bought into everything the Russians were selling about Clinton because they hate her just as much as they do. Way I see it the enemy of my enemy is my friend
Trump is gonna facK everything up royal. He's going to damage Republicans for years to come. Even in the fairly near term we might make more progressive gains without Clinton shoehorned between the last Democratic and the next Republican administration which would surely have happened if Clinton had won. The way things are headed now we might get a full four terms of Democratic control after Trump finally burns himself out and takes his party out him.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306602 - 05/05/18 02:08 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41039
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
...Hillary would have done great things for the left. Brilliant foriegn policy, higher wages, advances in health care, and a tax reform that actually helped middle America...


ROTFMOL

gobsmacked
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#306604 - 05/05/18 02:41 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7923
Loc: North San Diego County
I think it will be a generation before Republicans recover. Just look at how the Nazis were treated after WW II in America. They were hiding in basements and having secret meetings for decades. Even the KKK would have nothing to do with them.

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#306607 - 05/05/18 03:53 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
It was a upper Midwestern lefty socialist that was sounding the alarm about Trump and the poor campaign being run by Clinton. The refusal of the Democratic establishment to take him seriously and dismiss his warnings was the critical error of hubris and mind palace thinking that still infects clinton supporters to this day.
Unable to come to terms with their flawed political thinking they put the blame for their candidates loss everywhere but where it should exist. The candidate herself and right wing centrism that proved as inspirational to the voters as LBJ's bucket of warm spit.
My favorite Democratic right wing tropes are Russia! Russia! Russia! and Bernie voters.

It echoes the hubris and delusional thinking that plagued her campaign strategy.

But I dunno, losing the Supreme Court for a generation, the House, the Senate, the executive should seem bad but Nawp! Gunna be the best thing ever. Heck, it should all but assure right wing Dems an easy romp. From the smoking crater of the Republican Party will come 2,3,4 terms of executive dominance.
Based on what?!
Democratic right wing centrism?
More mind palace building while all objective indicator needles move into the red.



Edited by chunkstyle (05/05/18 03:55 AM)

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#306609 - 05/05/18 05:06 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
I find it helpful to go back and read from those that nailed events before they came to pass. It can be instructive. Not so much with centrists

They will blame...


Edited by chunkstyle (05/05/18 05:06 AM)

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#306611 - 05/06/18 03:34 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13294
Loc: Whittier, California
Quote:
That is the task ahead. The Democratic party needs to be either decisively wrested from pro-corporate neoliberals, or it needs to be abandoned. From Elizabeth Warren to Nina Turner, to the Occupy alumni who took the Bernie campaign supernova, there is a stronger field of coalition-inspiring progressive leaders out there than at any point in my lifetime. We are “leaderful”, as many in the Movement for Black Lives say.


Are you all ready to do the generational work to create an actual third party that does more than siphon votes away for the opposition (*usually Republicans) by crawling out from hibernation every 3.5 years to pretend at a White House run?

This is real work, y'all...putting 3rd party people in seats in state houses, in local government, and in Congress.

If you're not prepared to do that, then get ready to transform the Democratic Party instead, otherwise it is all just talk.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306612 - 05/06/18 03:48 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14272
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Democratic right wing centrism?


Yep. Because that's all your gonna get. You can dream of a socialist utopia but it aint gonna happen in my lifetime or yours.

I will remind you once again that politics is the art of the possible.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306613 - 05/06/18 04:40 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13294
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Democratic right wing centrism?


Yep. Because that's all your gonna get. You can dream of a socialist utopia but it aint gonna happen in my lifetime or yours.

I will remind you once again that politics is the art of the possible.



The Soviets claimed to be socialists, the Nazis claimed to be socialists, Sanders claims to be a socialist, Venezuela claims to be socialist, France has a socialist party and a socialist government, but none of the people or places actually meet the definition of a socialist or socialism.

And I think that for Americans, it doesn't really matter beyond us just gleaning a couple of minor tweaks to use in the capitalist system to tilt it more in favor of the middle class. Outside of that, you'd be looking at converting our entire economy into something we've never tried in almost 250 years, and I don't think it would go well.

Countries which are capitalist but which have added a small smidgeon of quasi-socialist spice to their capitalism seem to do pretty well.
We did it and it worked beautifully, and I think we ought to try it again, and soon.
But going whole hog socialist? Naaah, I think it's a bad experiment for the United States.
And, I doubt it would ever gain traction anyway, for a wide variety of reasons.

But again, the biggest reason seems to be that we did very well just tweaking our capitalist system with just a dash of small s socialism and stopping at just that. It was a hybrid and it was very healthy.

And as for the Right wing, now that Americans have witnessed them in all their vulgar philistine glory, there will be a reckoning, and it will be very bad for the Right.
And whether or not we go socialist has little if anything to do with the fact that Americans will not tolerate this level of nastiness.
The repudiation of the Right will be swift, just and irrevocable.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306614 - 05/06/18 12:18 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
" I will remind you once again that politics is the art of the possible."



Politics is a battle for resources.
You just witnessed a trillion dollar tax break benefitting the very rich with broad unpopular support being accomplished.
Stop trying to manage lowered expectations while punching left and this country could make some true progress with more equitable and humane distribution of resources, more public space and just laws.


Edited by chunkstyle (05/06/18 12:24 PM)

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#306615 - 05/06/18 12:51 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Democratic right wing centrism?


Yep. Because that's all your gonna get. You can dream of a socialist utopia but it aint gonna happen in my lifetime or yours.

I will remind you once again that politics is the art of the possible.



The Soviets claimed to be socialists, the Nazis claimed to be socialists, Sanders claims to be a socialist, Venezuela claims to be socialist, France has a socialist party and a socialist government, but none of the people or places actually meet the definition of a socialist or socialism.

And I think that for Americans, it doesn't really matter beyond us just gleaning a couple of minor tweaks to use in the capitalist system to tilt it more in favor of the middle class. Outside of that, you'd be looking at converting our entire economy into something we've never tried in almost 250 years, and I don't think it would go well.

Countries which are capitalist but which have added a small smidgeon of quasi-socialist spice to their capitalism seem to do pretty well.
We did it and it worked beautifully, and I think we ought to try it again, and soon.
But going whole hog socialist? Naaah, I think it's a bad experiment for the United States.
And, I doubt it would ever gain traction anyway, for a wide variety of reasons.

But again, the biggest reason seems to be that we did very well just tweaking our capitalist system with just a dash of small s socialism and stopping at just that. It was a hybrid and it was very healthy.

And as for the Right wing, now that Americans have witnessed them in all their vulgar philistine glory, there will be a reckoning, and it will be very bad for the Right.
And whether or not we go socialist has little if anything to do with the fact that Americans will not tolerate this level of nastiness.
The repudiation of the Right will be swift, just and irrevocable.


This country had one of the most bloody and violent labor histories. To call it a 'dab of socialism' is telling Jeff.
The great class traitor FDR had viscous battles with the rich and powerful many of which liked the nazi's and their corporate fascism. That dream is still very much alive and nearly complete today in this country. One could say that the rulers of the National socialist party were conquered and the irony is the conquerers became more like the conquered.
The left is trying to oppose this slide but it has an uphill battle from both the dominant right wing that has taken over its party and the ultra right opposition party that is trying to reform itself into a german like national socialist party.
Going further right is not an alternative strategy that has worked given the current reality.
Using John Podesta's 'they're so offensive that they'll vote for us by default' is not a coherent strategy. Backing popular proposals and winning majorities to pass such proposals still seems like a better way to win IMO.

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#306617 - 05/06/18 01:54 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16232
I'm not laughing at you, chunk, but I am laughing. I love your zeal and true-heartedness - I really do. But you are missing such a fundamental point it baffles me. I'll ask it this way: Which leaders - American and World - have had the greatest positive impact in realizing progressive policies? Name them. Seriously. I promise to listen carefully.

I'll give you a hint: They are the very centrists you are excoriating. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson, Barack Obama... Martin Luther King? Not a "socialist" among them, and yet each has contributed profoundly to advancing social justice and the best of who we are. Do I need to list their accomplishments?Internationally, it is the same story. Gandhi? Bismarck? Mandela? None were preaching Utopia, just a better world.

I very much respect your views, my friend, and I'm rowing in the same direction, truly - but I'll take the inside oar every time. It's less likely to capsize the boat.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306620 - 05/06/18 05:01 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
Sheesh,

Arguing a point about the ruination of the middle class over the last 3 decades as a result of the pursuit of neo-liberal policies is akin to advocating state issued jumpsuits that will be legally required for all of us to start wearing for some on this board.
One of the famous leaders in your list NWP had a famous quote that went something like "I can't pass your bill untill you make me pass your bill". Something to that effect.
The point is, as another famous leader said,"power concedes nothing without a demand".
I reject the technocratic class that has dominated the democratic party. I have made clear that it has done little more than managed lowered expectations while punching left. I stand by that view based on the steady growth of income inequality and legal justice over the same last 30 years. Any small gains that have been made are under serious threat. Your odd red scare counterpoint argument to my criticism of the democrats rightward turn offers no solution to the current political situation.
Nor does blaming Comey.
Nor does RUSSIA!.
Nor does Bernie voters!
Nor does Stormy.
Nor does 'Just wait, they'll see the error of their votes..."
Nor does Muellers investigation.

What may help is a clear vision of government and policy that people can get behind. 78 centrist democrats just recently voted with republicans to gut Dodd Frank.
Who's interest is being served? Who's winning the battle over resources? Who's been losing that battle and why?
The Pullman car company strikes, the mine field war in West Virginia, Colorado mine wars, Pretty much all the major labor battles of the late 19th and early to mid-20th centuries were fought by leaders and rank and file. They demanded something from power. Most of that has been stripped away now and were fighting over membership.
Any republicans without a home that are brought into the democratic party at the cost to progressives (who else) are not welcome. Regardless of the red hysteria that position might generate.
Say, when the last time the minimum wage was raised?
That would be one example of a more equitable time. Call me commie.......


Edited by chunkstyle (05/06/18 05:03 PM)

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#306621 - 05/06/18 05:36 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8887
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Not a "socialist" among them...

It has been verified for me recently that the word "socialism" is still so highly tainted among Regressives that they will make up fresh and heinous meanings for it, meanings that are not even remotely connected to its definition. They particularly like to ascribe fascist and authoritarian evils to socialism - it means "the government is going to tell you what to do and how to think, AND they are coming for your guns, BTW.

Regressives are also similarly tainting the word "progressive", as well as many other words that are being doublespeaked (doublespoken?) into irrational oblivion. That's why I began calling such right wingers 'Regressives', because they hate 'Progressives' so much that they can't figure out a way to deny being the Opposite Thang (ConROT).

To the point, there exists 30-40% of our population that reveres doublespeaking, propagandizing, assholistic authoritarians, and we have allowed them to take control of the government. Facts don't matter, just a strong sales pitch about who the enemy is.

The Left needs a strong sales pitch about the positive things we can do, and needs to counter the Upside Down messaging of the Regressives. A counter-doublespeak campaign.

Basic logic isn't going to do the trick. Salesmanship works. That's all a leader is, a good salesman - that's how to get elected. We need a leader who is also a decent manager, though.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306622 - 05/06/18 06:26 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14272
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Salesmanship works. That's all a leader is, a good salesman - that's how to get elected. We need a leader who is also a decent manager, though.


I'd argue that "leaders" are excellent managers. While salesmen are not necessarily all liars they all play games with the truth.

Trump is a super-salesman, he speaks in superlatives and diminutives. It got him elected. But he's a lousy manager.

Bernie is a great salesman, he's selling a great product and he believes in his product. Not sure about his management skills.

Hillary sucks at sales, good product but poorly presented, she's terrible at campaigning. But she's a good manager, a good manager can hire good salesmen...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306623 - 05/06/18 06:27 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41039
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


The elephant in the room: Hillary is the reason why we have Trump today. Hmm

I blame Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and those who believe it was "her turn."

frown
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#306624 - 05/06/18 07:05 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
But.. But.. the ladders

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#306625 - 05/06/18 07:06 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
I can't do 15.00/hr how bout 12?

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#306627 - 05/06/18 07:58 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14272
Loc: Florida
I know a lot of folks who would be thrilled with $12.

Quote:
I blame...


I don't blame anybody. It was an election and they don't always turn out the way you want. Hillary would have been better than Trump. Maybe Bernie would have been better than Hillary. Everything else is just spilled milk under the bridge.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306633 - 05/07/18 12:14 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41039
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
... Hillary would have been better than Trump...

I agree. smile

...but I'd rather have Biden or Bernie. Hmm And, no it's not a woman thing, but it is 100% a THAT woman thing. laugh
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#306636 - 05/07/18 12:41 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
Funny. Between the two democratic candidates one has gone on to promote single payer/medicaide for all and a 15/hr. minimum raise. The other has climbed into the talk show circuit promoting a book on what went wrong.
I hear it's doing well and making lots of money.
I agree Gregor, I could care less for the self described mistakes the candidate thinks others made and would much rather hear the other former candidates medical plan ideas.
Don't get me wrong, this is Amerika where we enjoy hanging price tags on everything and can't stand a shred of public space. I don't begrudge the former Senator of my state from makin bank on a book about failure in the fast lane of hard ball politics. Not any more than I begrudge her selling her donors list and analytics back to the DNC for a coupla mill as has just been reported on this past month. A high grade operator on the long running grift of the democratic election machine would certainly done a competent job of lowering our expectations.

I'll be glad to donate

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#306639 - 05/07/18 03:43 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14272
Loc: Florida
One of the candidates is still a senator. Doing what he has always done and doing it admirably. The other is a private citizen, a former first lady, Senator, Secretary of State, and Presidential candidate doing what she has always done. Working hard for women's and children's rights. Do you remember that she was one of the first to call for health care reform?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306640 - 05/07/18 05:10 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
There has been a lot of politicians that have paid lip service to health care reform on both sides of the aisle. It would be interesting to see how many have parleyed that into bank.



THere was a big difference between them

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#306641 - 05/07/18 06:49 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14272
Loc: Florida
Quote:
There has been a lot of politicians that have paid lip service to health care reform on both sides of the aisle. It would be interesting to see how many have parleyed that into bank.

So far only Obama. Unless you want to count Mitt Romney's efforts.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306651 - 05/08/18 02:15 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13294
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
There has been a lot of politicians that have paid lip service to health care reform on both sides of the aisle. It would be interesting to see how many have parleyed that into bank.



THere was a big difference between them


The only reason my son is alive is because of S-CHIP, which if you remember, was the only part of HillaryCare (proposed single payer system) that survived. I saw the reception her single payer proposals got in Congress. It wasn't pretty.

He got three open heart surgeries before the age of five, two at the Cleveland Clinic and one at Arkansas Children's Hospital, all taken care of by S-CHIP.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306656 - 05/08/18 02:03 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
There has been a lot of politicians that have paid lip service to health care reform on both sides of the aisle. It would be interesting to see how many have parleyed that into bank.



THere was a big difference between them


The only reason my son is alive is because of S-CHIP, which if you remember, was the only part of HillaryCare (proposed single payer system) that survived. I saw the reception her single payer proposals got in Congress. It wasn't pretty.

He got three open heart surgeries before the age of five, two at the Cleveland Clinic and one at Arkansas Children's Hospital, all taken care of by S-CHIP.


Ted Kennedy Jeff?
How about a shout out to Orrin Hatch for getting on board?

I'm glad your son was able to get the medical care needed to save his life. I would much rather have our tax dollars spent on these kinds of things.
How nice it would be for americans who needed it to have the same experience that your family had but with their mothers, sisters, brothers, aunts uncles, etc...?
The link described Clintons evolution of thinking from being an advocate of single payer to her current position against it and the speaking fees she's collected on the way to her current position on single payer.
Is this not a valid point to be raised on the differences in candidates and their positions on winning issues within the party or is it 'all hail the Anointed One?'

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#306657 - 05/08/18 03:50 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14272
Loc: Florida

Who's the anointed one?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306662 - 05/08/18 09:30 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7923
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
the anointed one


That would be the Democrat who won 32 state primaries compared to the 23 her opponent won, and got 16,914,722 popular votes compared to the 13,206,428 popular votes her opponent got.

The voters picked Hillary instead of the Bernie. Even if you ignore the super-delegates, Sanders lost every contest fair and square.

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#306665 - 05/08/18 10:35 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
the anointed one


That would be the Democrat who won 32 state primaries compared to the 23 her opponent won, and got 16,914,722 popular votes compared to the 13,206,428 popular votes her opponent got.

The voters picked Hillary instead of the Bernie. Even if you ignore the super-delegates, Sanders lost every contest fair and square.


And is now cashing in handsomely on her eventual Presidential loss.

How both of the candidates have gone on after their election bids is telling for some. For others not so much

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#306666 - 05/08/18 10:41 PM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13294
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
There has been a lot of politicians that have paid lip service to health care reform on both sides of the aisle. It would be interesting to see how many have parleyed that into bank.



THere was a big difference between them


The only reason my son is alive is because of S-CHIP, which if you remember, was the only part of HillaryCare (proposed single payer system) that survived. I saw the reception her single payer proposals got in Congress. It wasn't pretty.

He got three open heart surgeries before the age of five, two at the Cleveland Clinic and one at Arkansas Children's Hospital, all taken care of by S-CHIP.


Ted Kennedy Jeff?
How about a shout out to Orrin Hatch for getting on board?

I'm glad your son was able to get the medical care needed to save his life. I would much rather have our tax dollars spent on these kinds of things.
How nice it would be for americans who needed it to have the same experience that your family had but with their mothers, sisters, brothers, aunts uncles, etc...?
The link described Clintons evolution of thinking from being an advocate of single payer to her current position against it and the speaking fees she's collected on the way to her current position on single payer.
Is this not a valid point to be raised on the differences in candidates and their positions on winning issues within the party or is it 'all hail the Anointed One?'


Where did you get Ted Kennedy from?
Or Orrin Hatch?
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306669 - 05/09/18 01:54 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973


Edited by chunkstyle (05/09/18 03:29 AM)

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#306674 - 05/09/18 04:44 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41039
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
The other is a private citizen, a former first lady, Senator, Secretary of State, and Presidential candidate doing what she has always done. Working hard for women's and children's rights.

Indeed, all very admirable and with terrific experience to be POTUS - for someone with a better personality. smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#306675 - 05/09/18 04:46 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41039
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Do you remember that she was one of the first to call for health care reform?

Do you remember when Hillary took fire at the Kosovo airport?

Pepperidge Farm remembers. smile

(Hillary never took fire at the Kosovo airport. Hmm )

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#306677 - 05/09/18 08:14 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7923
Loc: North San Diego County
What she actually said was "There was supposed to some kind of greeting ceremony at the airport but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

There WAS sniper fire in the area at that time, but none directed at her. And she never claimed anybody was shooting at her. She was probably told before getting off the plane not to expose herself because there WERE still snipers even though hostilities had stopped.

I suspect there was a lot of "Al Gore claimed he invented the internet" like crap going around even though he never claimed any such thing.

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#306678 - 05/09/18 08:48 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7923
Loc: North San Diego County
I suspect President Hillary would have not put up with Mitch McConnell refusing to hold hearings on her Supreme Court pick. Obama was so busy being a dignified Black Statesman, that he wouldn't press the matter. I think a President Hillary would have just said: "Times up Mitch, you've had your 3 months. You chose not to participate so now Garland is on the Court." Just like any White male President would have done.

Or maybe even had the Justice Department bring Mitch up on charges for failing to do his job.

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#306691 - 05/10/18 04:31 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13294
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle


Thank you...we were too busy trying to USE it back in the day.
I just remember that when the rest of HillaryCare got shot down, she argued to keep S-CHIP and Newt and the boys relented on it and let it stay.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306692 - 05/10/18 04:36 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13294
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
What she actually said was "There was supposed to some kind of greeting ceremony at the airport but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

There WAS sniper fire in the area at that time, but none directed at her. And she never claimed anybody was shooting at her. She was probably told before getting off the plane not to expose herself because there WERE still snipers even though hostilities had stopped.

I suspect there was a lot of "Al Gore claimed he invented the internet" like crap going around even though he never claimed any such thing.


The actual guys who DID invent the internet are on record as saying that Al was a huge help and that they don't mind the Al Gore comments at all.

Al Gore and the Internet - by Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf

Quote:
No one person or even small group of persons exclusively "invented" the Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among people in government and the university community. But as the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President.


Basically, two of the guys who actually DID help "invent the internet" are poised to slap a few folks and tell them to shut the Hell up and give Gore some thanks. Bow
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306702 - 05/11/18 02:42 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 973
"Franken for Painter was surely the swap that the corporate parties wanted. Ditch a mediocre wayward Senator like Franken for a serious “centrist” like Painter (aka liberalish imperialist ecocide-inducing corporate hack). Thus we are left with the two party split: the politically correct moralizing corporate suits like Painter on the one hand, the lawless corporate gangster rascals like Trump on the other hand"

Well said!

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#306703 - 05/11/18 05:58 AM Re: Richard Painter Switches from GOP to DFL in Senate Run [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7923
Loc: North San Diego County
Gore was the main Congressional advocate when most others could not see the purpose of the internet. He cosponsored the bills that turned the Arpanet into the Internet and opened it up to other than a few big defense contractors and their University affiliates.

That is exactly what he claimed.

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