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#306693 - 05/10/18 06:30 PM The Democratic Plan
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1937
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I heard, last night, that the Dems plan, against the Republicans, is to attack about jobs and the economy. I would submit that this is absolutely crazy. Trump has, quite possibly, the best stats in years, ie. unemployment below 4%, booming economy, etc. If they do this they WILL lose!

My own thought is that they run a "we stand for, they stand for" campaign which should be easy to win and a no brainer. I also think that the Dems should start to claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility as they have, historically, been the party responsible for fixing financial disasters (for which the Republicans were responsible) from the Great Depression of 1929 to the Great Recession of 2008. This would also go far in reminding voters of just who is responsible for our financial disasters in the first place.


Edited by jgw (05/10/18 06:48 PM)

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#306696 - 05/10/18 08:50 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
If it means shifting the politics back to the issues of working families with real solutions (not the jibber jabber of job training, creative start up incubation, ladders of opportunity, etc..) then I'm all for it.

Yes, if you have an investment portfolio and enough disposable cash to throw into it then you might think the economy is doing pretty good. If you are in the precariot then your life has been consistently lousy. The labor share of GDP has been on a downward trajectory for decades while the gains have gone to financial markets. That's the only thing people quote nowadays including most liberals. The stock market.
Perhaps they are going to, at long last, declare themselves to be on the side of the working classes and poor, it's historic role, and announce real economic solutions that people can get behind?

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#306697 - 05/10/18 08:53 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Here's that other economic indicator:
Labor share


Edited by chunkstyle (05/10/18 10:27 PM)

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#306698 - 05/10/18 09:17 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13120
Loc: Whittier, California
Link doesn't work!
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306700 - 05/10/18 10:55 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Fixed

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#306707 - 05/11/18 05:10 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1937
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
One bright point, for the Dems, is that there are financial gurus starting to warn of an economic downturn. The jackass has already worked over the agriculture folks (most of which are trumpites) and if he goes after nafta its more than 20,000 jobs in Texas alone. I think that China is actively looking for suppliers, other than those in America, to take care of what they need, due to the Trump tariff thing and the jackass continues to double down. Then there is also the Iran thing and it looks as though europe, asia, etc. are all going to continue to support the iran/nuclear agreement which means that we are going to get a lot more isolated both in trade as well as everything else. Its 6 months to the mid-terms and one can only wonder what happens if the economy tanks before that. Oh, there is also the Medicare and medicaid thing. That too is going to come home to roost, if the Dems even mention what is happening to them due to the "tax cut" and budget.

Anyway, we know the downturn is going to happen, its just a question of "how soon".

This is, probably, yet another exercise in wishful thinking <sigh>

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#306710 - 05/11/18 06:21 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
With all due respect, you seem to be taking a 'let em hang themselves given enough rope', JGW.
I disagree. It's time for bold populist proposals. That used to be the ground that democrats chose to fight on. It's ground from which they dominated congress for 5 decades was it not?



Edited by chunkstyle (05/11/18 06:22 PM)

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#306720 - 05/11/18 11:34 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13939
Loc: Florida
Quote:
It's time for bold populist proposals.


Aint that the truth. It's not going to go well if everyone runs on the We Hate Trump platform, and at the moment that appears to be the plan of the DNC.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#306722 - 05/12/18 12:53 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1659
Loc: Middle, USA
Danica Roem, a beautiful transgender woman, didn't win a seat in Virginia's House of Delegates by just campaigning for LGBTQ rights. She ran on a host of issues that concerned the voters.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#306734 - 05/12/18 06:01 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: Spag-hetti]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15953
There are plenty of good, Democratic Values that Democrats can run on, and policy proposals that are not pie-in-the-sky. But, and I've said this often, they need to have specific proposals for rural America, too. Like public clinics, and educational support.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306742 - 05/13/18 05:55 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1937
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Its "Us against Them" and, as far as I can see, ours make more sense and should be presented. On the other hand, go too far, and you will turn off the votes. In Seattle the left is proposing a head tax of 500.00 on every large company employee in Seattle. This includes Amazon. Amazon pays something like 250 MILLION dollars a year in taxes right now and the left has decided to nail them for another 20 million to fix its homeless problem. Skipping past the millions spent on studies and trials and sticking to the head tax. Amazon has stopped building project and put everything on hold until the head tax thing is solved. If they stick to it I suspect Amazon is gone and Seattle will lose something like 8,000 jobs and also the construction jobs and the added 2000 jobs that is all about. The left is doubling down because they claim to be in the right and Amazon has profits that they must spend to bail Seattle out of their homeless adventures. This is, as far as I am concerned, one of the most egregious and unthinking trip into waaaay too far I can give. If the left doesn't want the right to win and go the other way then they are going to have to use common sense instead the paean of shove it down their throats taxation, especially if its going to cost jobs, income, etc. I fully expect Amazon to put the plug on Seattle if they keep at it. The amazing thing about this is that apparently Amazon actually agreed if they cut the head tax to 250.00 a head. I should also mention that there are other large companies giving serious thoughts to moving too. Greed, in this case, has a price and, I fear, Seattle will be proving that one with vigor.

I guess I should mention that the homeless problem will continue to grow and more poor will be thrown out of their homes because of higher rates. This is a national problem and its an important one to solve. Picking a single financial segment, and then laying it all on them is not, I think, the answer.


Edited by jgw (05/13/18 05:59 PM)

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#306762 - 05/17/18 02:07 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Some interesting results on the left

[url=inthesetimes.com/article/21149/socialism_dsa_pennsylvania_election_may_15_summer_lee_democratic_party]Going left for a win?[/url]


Edited by chunkstyle (05/17/18 02:08 AM)

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#306763 - 05/17/18 02:39 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13120
Loc: Whittier, California


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (05/17/18 02:39 AM)
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
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#306766 - 05/17/18 12:34 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Thanks Jeff

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#306767 - 05/17/18 02:56 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I would have thought the first and only question one should ask of people is what do they expect of government.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306778 - 05/19/18 06:18 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40878
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Joe Biden is the Dems ONLY hope in 2020. Hmm
Maybe adding Bernie as VP would cinch the ticket. smile
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#306779 - 05/19/18 09:26 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13120
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Joe Biden is the Dems ONLY hope in 2020. Hmm
Maybe adding Bernie as VP would cinch the ticket. smile


They're on opposite ends of the Dem spectrum.
Bernie might be willing to work with Biden but I don't see how anyone can imagine Biden working with Bernie.
Look at Biden's past policy positions. He was the original anti-pot crusader, coined the term "Drug Czar".

What's Biden's positions on universal health care? How about subsidized secondary education? Biden-Sanders? Help me understand how that kind of thing works.

Help me understand how recycling old stuff works when we need a new approach and new blood? I like Bernie but he is damaged goods now, self inflicted.
Even Bernie's SON has enough sense to run AS A DEMOCRAT.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#306781 - 05/20/18 12:43 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Bernie is still the most popular politician so I guess the scratch and dents havnt damaged his resale value Jeff.
In case you missed it in the last election, the fix gets done in the primaries for the corporate wing of the Democratic Party.
I hardly think Bernie bending the knee to the DNC would have changed the outcome of their treatment of him. Unless you've gone full MACA, it's hard to miss this conclusion from all the reporting and internal leaks from the campaign.
The takeaway is alternative funding options now in place to support true progressives and have options beyond what the corporations decide who we can vote for (illiberal democracy were all enjoying now).
Finally, why would you ever vote for the corporate candidate that took monies from the same people who polluted the worlds economy, destroyed families, wiped out people's savings?
Because she had a D next to her name?
Rilly?

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#306782 - 05/20/18 03:31 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7565
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Bernie is still the most popular politician

Hillary 16,914,722 votes Bernie 13,206,428 votes

I guess he's the most popular if you count Republicans...

Quote:
the fix gets done in the primaries for the corporate wing of the Democratic Party

You know, that election where Democrats had a popular vote and the corporatists changed the results so it looked like Hillary got 3.7 million more votes than Bernie. ROTFMOL

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#306783 - 05/20/18 06:15 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
Bernie is still the most popular politician

Hillary 16,914,722 votes Bernie 13,206,428 votes

I guess he's the most popular if you count Republicans...

Quote:
the fix gets done in the primaries for the corporate wing of the Democratic Party

You know, that election where Democrats had a popular vote and the corporatists changed the results so it looked like Hillary got 3.7 million more votes than Bernie. ROTFMOL


Devoid of any contex, PIA, you might have a point. Yes Hillary got more votes in the primary. I won't bother with the details of how that primary played out.
I'm referring to Sanders polling currently. You hang on to that primary victory though. If it provides you comfort for the subsequent loss she suffered in the general.
Oh wait... She had the resume, the sophisticated analytics, the most powerful campaign machine known to man. How could she have...?
THE RUSSIANS!!!!

Go deep state, go!

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#306784 - 05/20/18 10:44 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
An incredible confluence of history, the irony of a once in the history of America, a sitting president, who is so unqualified to be president, and who is in everyday violation of the Constitution, and yet there is, based on your arguments, no Democrats who can beat him in an election.

In a most Hagee fashion, I say God is punishing America.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306785 - 05/20/18 02:32 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40878
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Joe Biden is the Dems ONLY hope in 2020. Hmm
Maybe adding Bernie as VP would cinch the ticket. smile


They're on opposite ends of the Dem spectrum.
Bernie might be willing to work with Biden but I don't see how anyone can imagine Biden working with Bernie.

Biden has shown that he is capable of evolving™. Biden did just that on gay marriage. Hmm
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#306786 - 05/20/18 03:34 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: rporter314]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Originally Posted By: rporter314
An incredible confluence of history, the irony of a once in the history of America, a sitting president, who is so unqualified to be president, and who is in everyday violation of the Constitution, and yet there is, based on your arguments, no Democrats who can beat him in an election.

In a most Hagee fashion, I say God is punishing America.


It really says something about the Democratic Party doesn't it?

Joe Biden? God help us. The guy who's represented our eastern continental cayman island, pointlessly cultivating a 'lunch box' persona, gimmee a break. To his credit, he schooled Ryan in how a grift is done during their vice presidential debates. That was fun. His policies? Not so much.

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#306793 - 05/20/18 08:19 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7565
Loc: North San Diego County
Yes, it says most of the Democratic Party is pretty damned centrist. I actually wish it was a bit more to the left. I think our government really should be sending every qualified applicant with a useful major through college and again those qualified through graduate school, so we can be competitive with the rest of the world. I think we should have single-payer for all, even if it radically reshapes the insurance and health care institutions. I think we need to keep up our infrastructure using government funding instead of building toll roads everywhere and pay-for-play fire departments.

Now, if I could just convince everybody else in the party...

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#306799 - 05/21/18 03:37 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Yes, it says most of the Democratic Party is pretty damned centrist. I actually wish it was a bit more to the left. I think our government really should be sending every qualified applicant with a useful major through college and again those qualified through graduate school, so we can be competitive with the rest of the world. I think we should have single-payer for all, even if it radically reshapes the insurance and health care institutions. I think we need to keep up our infrastructure using government funding instead of building toll roads everywhere and pay-for-play fire departments.

Now, if I could just convince everybody else in the party...


The Centrist control the party. It's subtle but makes a big difference PIA. I could understand how someone could confuse that. If your a right wing centrist you'll chose to ignore it.

I disagree that the party is right wing centrist. There's many issues that have broad majority support in the party but somehow go no where with the elected representatives.
Universal health care, campaign finance reform, repealing corporate personhood, legalize weed have broad popular support.
Progressives get smothered in the primaries. It's happening in my district as well as neighboring district. Outside funding structures have helped vault true progressives into primary races without help from DCCC.
And some of these progressives are winning against the party chosen candidates.
That's hopeful.
Or are you content with the complete wipeout of state governors mansions, the house, the senate, the White House and the Supreme Court?
Did the Russians make all that happen as well?

The Vig

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#306800 - 05/21/18 04:21 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40878
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Yes, it says most of the Democratic Party is pretty damned centrist. I actually wish it was a bit more to the left. I think our government really should be sending every qualified applicant with a useful major through college and again those qualified through graduate school, so we can be competitive with the rest of the world. I think we should have single-payer for all, even if it radically reshapes the insurance and health care institutions. I think we need to keep up our infrastructure using government funding instead of building toll roads everywhere and pay-for-play fire departments.

Now, if I could just convince everybody else in the party...

The only thought in your post that I would disagree with, is that I I would say that the Democratic party is more center-right than centrist.

Otherwise, I agree with the thoughts of your post. Hmm
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#306801 - 05/21/18 04:27 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: chunkstyle]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40878
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Quote:

Quote:
The Democrats lost about 1,000 seats in state legislatures over the course of the Obama years.

This statement completely ignores the fact that the GOP completely gerrymandered the Hell out of Districts and voter suppressed the minority vote.

Hmm

Quote:
...He and the 14 other white men on that committee treated Anita Hill’s testimony about sexual harassment with skepticism and hostility...

While true, I will go out on a limb and state that Joe Biden would not behave in the same manner today, twenty-five years later. smile

Quote:
iden voted for NAFTA in 1993 and the Iraq War in 2003. In 2007, campaigning for the Democratic presidential nomination in Iowa, he called the Iraq vote “a mistake.”

Would Fatass ever admit to making a mistake. Remember, Karl Rove came-up with the very clever box-them-into-a-corner line: "Either you're with us, or you're against us."

Hmm

Quote:
Biden championed the oxymoronic Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005. This law stripped consumers of bankruptcy protections while deregulating credit card issuers. At the time, the largest such company was MBNA—also one of Biden’s largest donors.

An indication of what a Biden White House might look like can be gleaned from looking at the 30 members on the advisory board of the Biden Institute, a policy outfit established last year at the University of Delaware. They include four people who have worked for hedge funds, three as bank executives, two as corporate consultants and one as the former CEO of the Democratic Leadership Council.

That was bad. I also knew when BAMZ!!! nominated Timothy Geithner as SecTres that nothing would change for the banking industry and it would be business as usual. cry

If Biden were serious about consumers, he'd campaign on restoring Glass-Steagall.

==========

Joe Biden nomination might not be able to check-off all of the boxes, but our Country needs a desperate "Hail Mary" pass in 2020. smile
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#306802 - 05/21/18 04:58 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7565
Loc: North San Diego County
It would be nice if we could get a populist Democrat that was not well beyond retirement age to run. I'd hate to expend all the time, energy, and money to elect somebody and have him or her drop dead in office. That's one thing Obama had going for him. He was just 57 when he took office.

George Clooney is 57 now. Did you see him and his wife at the royal wedding? Looked pretty damned Presidential. Unlike Trump's pitiful excuse of a bio, Clooney's is pretty impressive. His wife's is even better.

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#306803 - 05/21/18 01:26 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Rick
What article are you quoting on Biden?

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#306805 - 05/21/18 03:19 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 292
Loc: Michigan, USA
Biden is to old.
Sanders is to old.

The stress of the job stands a good chance of killing them.

Democrats need young blood.

George Clooney - not another actor, besides he is not qualified (however, President Donald (abuse of power and authority) Trump proved qualifications or lack there of are not a hindrance.

Now Amal Clooney is better qualified than her husband, it is a shame she is not a Natural Born citizen.

What about Cory Booker?

A dam shame Senator Tammy Duckworth is not a Natural Born Citizen.
_________________________
Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#306809 - 05/21/18 06:40 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I hope you are not saying these folks were born unnaturally. And beside, no modern conservative would know the difference. They have only read one amendment in the whole Constitution and don't understand it.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306811 - 05/22/18 12:31 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 292
Loc: Michigan, USA
Natural born as used in paragraph 5, section 1, Article II of the Constitution and defined in section 212, Chapter 19, book 1 of Vattel's Law of Nations - http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel_01.htm

At least, until SCOTUS is forced to define and decide the issue...

Then, THANK HEAVENS I'm not a conservative LOL


Edited by Ujest Shurly (05/22/18 12:32 AM)
_________________________
Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#306813 - 05/22/18 02:56 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7565
Loc: North San Diego County
Clooney is a lot more than another actor. Read his bio on Wikipedia. He's a media star like Trump but he's actually won all sorts of awards for his humanitarian projects. He's married to a beautiful woman like Trump, but his wife is a world-renowned human rights lawyer. He's a businessman like Trump, but with zero bankruptcies and his tequila business sold for a billion dollars.

He's actually a descendant of Abraham Lincoln's mother and Rosemary Clooney's nephew, but came up from humble beginnings. His mother was a city councilwoman, his father an anchorman in Kentucky. He attended Catholic and public schools.

Every thing Trump has ever done, Clooney has done better. Usually a lot better. He even looks Presidential. Women want him and men want to be him.

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#306816 - 05/22/18 04:01 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40878
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
It would be nice if we could get a populist Democrat that was not well beyond retirement age to run. I'd hate to expend all the time, energy, and money to elect somebody and have him or her drop dead in office. That's one thing Obama had going for him. He was just 57 when he took office.

You mean 47. smile
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#306817 - 05/22/18 04:02 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40878
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Women want him and men want to be him.

I'd rather be like Andy Cohen, or Dan Savage. More like a hybrid of the two: Dan's smarts and Andy's happy-go-lucky nature. Hmm , smile
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#306820 - 05/22/18 10:42 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
and he looked like a 67 year old, grey headed, white guy when he left

I'll bet when (and if) MR Trump leaves office he will look like he has a pocket full of money
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