Current Topics
RoundTable for September 2018
by Greger
09/25/18 04:35 PM
The End of the Independent Judiciary
by Greger
09/25/18 04:15 PM
A time when politics were not all about greed
by Greger
09/25/18 03:58 PM
Answer (Fredric Brown, 1954)
by Golem
09/24/18 11:11 PM
Code for no black people': New York bar's 'racist' dress code sparks online deba
by Greger
09/24/18 06:35 PM
The United States v Donald Trump
by rporter314
09/24/18 12:54 PM
How the octopus got its smarts
by Ujest Shurly
09/24/18 02:32 AM
Our modern Sinclair Lewis?
by jgw
09/22/18 08:52 PM
Returning rationality to public policy
by NW Ponderer
09/20/18 04:03 PM
The Savage Breast: A Music Clip Thread
by Golem
09/20/18 12:58 AM
Yom Kippur and Kol Nidre
by Golem
09/18/18 06:57 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Golem
09/17/18 10:21 PM
Justice is coming
by jgw
09/17/18 09:37 PM
Flor-i-duh's Governor's Race
by Greger
09/17/18 06:19 PM
‘Unprecedented’: Natural gas expert says ‘over-pressurization’ may be to blame
by NW Ponderer
09/17/18 03:02 PM
George Conway rips Trump over tweet about Obama's '57 states' gaffe
by pdx rick
09/17/18 04:37 AM
Obama's Friday Speech
by pondering_it_all
09/14/18 06:51 AM
Woodward book breaks 93-year publishing record
by Greger
09/14/18 03:01 AM
Mike Rowe on Nike / Kaepernick and 9/11 hero Tom Burnett
by Greger
09/12/18 02:17 AM
The nuclear option
by Greger
09/12/18 01:22 AM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16385 Topics
281999 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5
Topic Options
#306738 - 05/12/18 10:04 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
The incredible part of killing the Iran deal is that we gave them back their impounded money for many years of them not working on nuclear weapons. We have already done our part of the deal! All the remaining years of the deal required actions by Iran. Killing the deal now lets them off the hook for their part. It is so stupid it can't just be stupidity. It has to be a favor for Putin to force Iran to become a Russia client state.

Top
#306740 - 05/12/18 11:58 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6487
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Let me point out the irony of JCPOA.

At Israel's insistence ( and the fact the US has been the only long time unconditional supporter of Israel) and long time propaganda campaign, the US and its allies were forced to either allow Israel to bomb Iran and thus precipitate another mid-east conflagration or negotiate a deal to stop a perceived (mostly as a result of Israeli propaganda) nuclear weapons program. Of course what the Israelis (and American right wing religious nuts wanted) was for Iran to surrender. This was obviously a non-starter for anyone with a brain cell or two.

So what happened? During the late 1980's and throughout the 1990's Iran perceived an existential threat from Iraq (initially as a result of US support for Saddam and later as a result of Saddam's tactical use of WMD's and the putative nuclear weapons program). As a result Iran started a nuclear weapons program. (Makes sense to me). However, when the US invaded and removed Saddam, Iran perceived a different kind of threat. It was simply non-nuclear, but at the same time Iran realized the US would not or could not implement a land war in central Asia. At this point Iran ended their nuclear ambitions in 2003.

Iran had to love the idea Israel continued to promote the idea Iran was pursuing nuclear weapons after it had stopped the program. This allowed an opening for negotiations to end sanctions and give a program which did not exist.

Even now Israel continues beating the war drum, since it did not get the surrender PM Netanyahu wanted. Mr Trump has in effect given the green light to PM Netanyahu to bomb Iran and end the illusion of a 2-state solution.

Why would anyone submit Mr Trump's name as a candidate for a Nobel? I predict he has opened the doors for war in the mid-east and for delusionally believing there will be a peace solution on the Korean peninsula.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#306750 - 05/14/18 08:23 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2099
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I keep repeating this, but just in case. The, the United States, does not like Iran. Iran is Shia, we like the Sunni (Saudi Arabia - the source of ALL terrorists that we have had contact with, ie ISIS and Al-Qaeda for starters. ISIS, for instance, uses Saudi School books in their own schools). Our claim that Iran are terrorists is that Iran supports the Shia. Basically, WE have chosen a side in the thousand year old war of Islam. All the rest of this is pure bunkum. What does make it more interesting is that Israel too has chosen the Sunni side, with vigor. Iran, under Saddam, was Sunni and the remains of his army are the ones who formed ISIS after WE lied to them about our responsibilities if they stayed out of our war with Saddam.

In other words, we LOVE war and the jobs it provides us as, probably, the world's biggest arms producer and supplier to whoever.

As far as Iran is concerned, years ago we got rid of a duly elected leader in favor of the Shah (not a nice man), accused them of any number of unlikely things, did a great job wrecking their economy at the behest of Israel, etc. (our list of offenses against Iran is long and has been going on for years) We, for instance, bankrolled Saddam's 5 year war with Saddam and also provided Saddam with little items like chemical gasses, etc. In other words, they hate us for pretty good reasons.

I, incidentally, would LOVE to see us just get the hell out of the ENTIRE mideast and let them get on with their thousand year old war without our troop, money or even best wishes. Anything and everything we try to do there becomes a failed money pit and there is exactly NOTHING there that we need or want.

I also suspect that the Jackass is working to get us into a shooting war with Iran in the hope it will raise his poll numbers. Our own military has consistently said that is something we REALLY do not want to do!


Edited by jgw (05/14/18 08:24 PM)

Top
#306754 - 05/15/18 04:15 AM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
We've been in Afghanistam for 16 years and the Taliban and Al Queda are still there. No way to win, because they are coming from Pakistan! We're searching for our dropped car keys under the street light even though we dropped them over in the dark part of the parking lot (Pakistan) because the light is better here. WE ARE NEVER GOING TO FIND THEM!

Iran would be much worse. Not only are they allied with Russia, but they have a pretty high level of technology and the war would come to US soil. Some Saudis armed with box cutters already showed how that is possible. Sure, they can't do that same attack with domestic airplanes, but we have 1000 other vulnerabilities and thousands of miles of unguarded borders.

Top
#306755 - 05/15/18 06:39 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2099
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Again, EVERYTHING we do over there turns to sh*t! We keep doing the same thing, over and over and over in Afghanistan and NOTHING changes. Iran is now pretty much taking over the entire Shia area of Iraq which was bound to happen. The Iraq election was also interesting. They elected a Shia firebrand too.

I still think the Jackass is trying to get us into a war with Iran. That, of course, also means we will be at war with Russia and China won't be too long in joining in. It will, of course, make the military suppliers pretty happy as they will have to up their production and, again of course, their prices too. So far the Jackass has given us a trillion+ addition to the national debt and now a bit more to fight a war that should never happen. Oh, and the market is starting to slide. Sell now or hold on for the ride!

I wish us all good luck.

Top
#306828 - 05/25/18 05:19 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 349
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
As we remember this Memorial Day, lets compare and contrast the President with Navel Academy Graduates


An Op-Ed from the Baltimore Sun - Trump has little advice to offer Naval Academy graduates


Remember, this November and November 2020.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (05/25/18 05:22 PM)
_________________________
Vote 2018; give meaning and honor to those who made sure you have the right to vote.

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

Top
Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5

Who's Online
0 registered (), 21 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2