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#306660 - 05/08/18 06:00 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 985
Thomas Frank does a very good job of exposing the false mind palace thinking with regards to the political pendulum swinging on it's own and the all mighty sanctity of 'Hye thee to the political center' salvation thinking that seems to afflict so many in the democratic party today. He also does a good job of explaining why in this recent lecture:

Unsparing assessments


Edited by chunkstyle (05/08/18 06:01 PM)

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#306661 - 05/08/18 06:02 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 985
Trumps 2020!

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#306663 - 05/08/18 09:36 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: Greger]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6525
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
The Democrats lost about 1,000 seats in state legislatures over the course of the Obama years.

I have given this thought over the years and nothing I came up with made a lot of sense, until now.

I now think the large losses had little to do with Pres Obama, and I say little relatively speaking of course. It was during these years we saw the most dramatic rise of populism reflected first with Tea people. These folks had really little to do with taxes but a lot to do with changing political atmosphere. While it may be true bigotry and racism was the glue which bound populist/nationalist principles, it was in fact growing frustration with political solutions, which caused these lilke minded people to form a coalition. We can see now candidates wallowing in their bigotry and Mr Trump's only concern is not winning i.e. it is ok to be a bigot or pedophile, etc as long as you can win. All of these candidates promote populist agendas. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel for the worst candidates possible only because that is where populists reside.

I foresee big chunks of time allocated to populism and a directly proportional relationship to the destruction of America and its values. The only hope is a relatively even partition politically of voters, which may prevent the odiousness of populism from swallowing America whole.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306664 - 05/08/18 10:26 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: rporter314]
chunkstyle Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 985
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
The Democrats lost about 1,000 seats in state legislatures over the course of the Obama years.

I have given this thought over the years and nothing I came up with made a lot of sense, until now.

I now think the large losses had little to do with Pres Obama, and I say little relatively speaking of course. It was during these years we saw the most dramatic rise of populism reflected first with Tea people. These folks had really little to do with taxes but a lot to do with changing political atmosphere. While it may be true bigotry and racism was the glue which bound populist/nationalist principles, it was in fact growing frustration with political solutions, which caused these lilke minded people to form a coalition. We can see now candidates wallowing in their bigotry and Mr Trump's only concern is not winning i.e. it is ok to be a bigot or pedophile, etc as long as you can win. All of these candidates promote populist agendas. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel for the worst candidates possible only because that is where populists reside.

I foresee big chunks of time allocated to populism and a directly proportional relationship to the destruction of America and its values. The only hope is a relatively even partition politically of voters, which may prevent the odiousness of populism from swallowing America whole.


FDR, Johnson, Debs, Mary Jones, Big Bill Haywood, Susan B. Anthony and Sanders are populist. Movements such as BLM and Occupy and Our Revolution may be considered populist groups.
I would consider myself a populist as the Democratic party once was.
Those political urges are now being competently harnessed by the right, IMO.

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#306670 - 05/09/18 04:10 AM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6525
Loc: Highlands, Tx
First, one should read the Constitution, not once but many times. If after reading one does not understand our form of government is for the common man, the ordinary citizen, then it must be read again. There is a certain form of populism inherent in our democracy, which entertains the notion the common man has the same rights as any privileged or elite person.

What should be of concern is the current incarnation of populism, which is based on the notion white folks have been disenfranchised by "liberal elites" in favor of minorities. Further, the fundamentalist Christians believe the same "liberal elites" have assaulted, what these Christians believe, is their Constitutional entitlement for enhanced status.

Basically what this means is, this brand of populism is really an elitist populism of white folks. I find this very disturbing.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306671 - 05/09/18 04:40 AM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41041
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Quote:
The Democrats lost about 1,000 seats in state legislatures over the course of the Obama years.

Hello!! Gerrymandering and voter suppression. Hmm
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#306673 - 05/09/18 04:44 AM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16236
I'm not sure it's Trump 2020 so much, tonight, more likely 20 to Life...

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#306680 - 05/09/18 02:35 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8887
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
I think we are trying too hard to make logical sense out of a thing that is fundamentally illogical. I have tried to verbalize a sense that politics is more about salesmanship than it is about policy, but have not hit upon a satisfactory expression of the concept - probably because I want it to be logical.

Here's the deal - I believe that the Trump voting 'populists' are stimulated by three basic things: 1) they have had a simple political villain conjured for them to hate (libs, proggies, Dems, etc.); 2) they have had a nice and neat little package of things to fear handed to them (immigrants, the gummit, socialist/fascist swat teams coming for your guns, etc.); 3) they have been convinced that they are exceptional and are being forced, at dire reduction of personal treasury, to take care of the hordes of losers.

This shallow bundle of delusions has been sold unethically and unabashedly to the Fools class (another one is born every minute), and teams have been firmly established to battle it out on the Reality Show playing field (aka the Coliseum). #WINNING! is the sole measure of success, and winning is as simple as beating the enemy (it's not about how you play the game... or about making things better).

How to counter this destructive and moronic 'populist' movement? That is the conundrum. Doing a better job of #WINNING! is likely a formula for increasing the grade on the slippery slope into the Cesspit of Gloom.

My sense is that the antidote is in having a serious and real enemy show up so that the Fake News enemy is pushed from the forefront. That could be war, economic depression (to name a couple of tried and true Tormentors); or it could be an environmental disaster of one flavor or another (or maybe a banana split sundae with lots of flavors).

Or maybe, a super charismatic and honest leader will show up who has the sales ability to make people want peace, love, and quiet prosperity more than war, fear, and easy riches?

Humans... I don't know how we survive as a species.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#306682 - 05/09/18 07:15 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: logtroll]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 356
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Or maybe, a super charismatic and honest leader will show up who has the sales ability to make people want peace, love, and quiet prosperity more than war, fear, and easy riches?


According to some religious stories, we had one about 2000 years ago, we crucified his ass!
_________________________
Vote 2018; give meaning and honor to those who made sure you have the right to vote.

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#306683 - 05/09/18 07:49 PM Re: TRUMP 2020! [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16236
I thought we elected one in 2008...
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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