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#306821 - 05/22/18 02:28 PM The End of the Independent Judiciary
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
It has been forgotten by many, but "the New Deal" legislation was brazenly opposed and successfully undermined by a small but determined minority of individuals. Those individuals were nicknamed, The Four Horsemen by the press - a direct, and poignant reference to the the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. So, who were these master manipulators? A bloc of ultra-conservatives, who just happened to control the Supreme Court of the United States.

It is hard to remember just how bad things were then. A string of corrupt Republicans had run the world economy into the ditch pursuing economic policies that were detached from empirical processes, millions were starving, Communists were to blame for everything while totalitarians were lauded for their decisiveness. The Supreme Court had been under the thumb of a cabal of judicial activists for nearly 40 years, willing to strike down any law, State or federal, that threatened corporate hegemony. The "Lochner era" is looked at as the nadir of judicial thought, "a cautionary tale of judicial overreaching" criticized on both the left and the right. It was a period when
Quote:
American judges steeped in laissez-faire economic theory, who identified with the nation’s capitalist class and harbored contempt for any effort to redistribute wealth or otherwise meddle with the private marketplace, acted on their own economic and political biases to strike down legislation that threatened to burden corporations or disturb the existing economic hierarchy. In order to mask this fit of legally unjustified, intellectually dishonest judicial activism, the progressive interpretation runs, judges invented novel economic “rights” — most notably “substantive due process” and “liberty of contract” — that they engrafted upon the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Sound familiar?

It's back now, with a vengeance, and abetted by perhaps the most venal, corrupt Congress the United States has yet endured. With the anti-constitutional usurpation of the appointment power, Mitch McConnell has almost single-handedly destroyed its legitimacy, and burdened the nation with a new Four Horsemen, who have unabashedly attacked the very foundations of judicial precedent and established ever more creative and flimsy pretexts for imposing their personal biases and warped views on a reeling nation.

Like their forebears who nearly destroyed a country in the throes of its worst economic crisis, this Court is poised to do even more radical violence to our constitutional foundations and the nation at large, and their work has hardly begun. They took a big step yesterday. It took decades to recover the last time, and this group is far worse. If you thought Citizens United was bad, you're in for some eye-opening terror. If we survive it at all - and that is a legitimate if - this will be seen as worse than the Lochner Era. Buckle up.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306859 - 05/30/18 10:15 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 353
'
It will be made infinitely worse by Trump's appointments to the lower courts.

Almost the first thing Hitler did was to pack the German judiciary with his supports --- once he had done that, he had secure control over the German state.
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

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#307179 - 06/30/18 06:56 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: matthew]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
I was genuinely astounded that Alito cited to a Lochner-era precedent in his Janus v. AFSCME opinion. That case has been so thoroughly discredited that no rational jurist would rely upon it. Seriously. That accurately describes the absolute paucity of intellect involved. We are in for dark days. Dark ages, even. A New Lochner Era - Slate. It's really not possible to capture how bad this is. The current four horsemen are about to be joined by a fifth. It took 40 years to recover from Lochner. This could destroy the United States Constitution. That is no exaggeration. Voting rights, gone; elections, stacked. Equal justice; due process; fair trials; limitations on police; constraints on the President - all the hallmarks of "liberal democracy," those principles that the Constitution has stood for for centuries. And elections won't matter, because the court can undo or block them.

If ever there is a time to stand up, this is it. If you didn't vote for Hillary Clinton, this is your fault, period. No excuse suffices.

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#307182 - 06/30/18 07:44 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
If ever there is a time to stand up, this is it. If you didn't vote for Hillary Clinton, this is your fault, period. No excuse suffices.

But NWP, you just don't understand! It's the Democrats fault...her emails...the leadership...third way...corporate...status quo...progressives will fix this...the Bernie plan...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307193 - 07/01/18 02:17 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#307200 - 07/01/18 03:49 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1082
[quote=If ever there is a time to stand up, this is it. If you didn't vote for Hillary Clinton, this is your fault, period. No excuse suffices. [/quote]

There is enough evidence that shows defections to third party candidates or opposition candidates from primary supporters to refute this silly logic that it was the reason were in the mess were in. Nothing up until the election could have been responsible, no policies or miscalculations. Nothing to learn here on team blue. No alternative paths or course corrections. History has only begun and ended with this past election when the candidates announced their intentions to run.
Don't look to the British snap elections nor the most recent presidential election of Mexico, Organized labor strikes in Red states, etc...
No, it's because of an imaginary number of defections from a historically unpopular democratic candidate that the democratic party machine insisted on. That must be the reason. I see the truth of it and not the 3 decades I've just lived thru.


Edited by chunkstyle (07/01/18 03:50 PM)

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#307202 - 07/01/18 04:38 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
Chunk, just admit it. You are the problem. wink

I think, by and large, the voting population simply didn't see the Supreme Court as the issue that it was in the 2016 election, consistent with past history. I am more sensitive to it, since that is the bailiwick that I've lived in for 30+ years. Now, alas, it is too late. (By the way, cs, I don't think you can establish your claim empirically. To wit: Family Feud: Democratic Activists v. Dem...tained Majority.)

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#307208 - 07/01/18 07:30 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
(By the way, cs, I don't think you can establish your claim empirically. To wit: Family Feud: Democratic Activists v. Dem...tained Majority.)


NWP, you need to get your sarcasm detector tuned. wink
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#307209 - 07/01/18 07:38 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8001
Loc: North San Diego County
All of those different things combined to give us Trump. Just about any single one of them could have given Clinton a win. It's no use arguing over it. We're all right.

If third-party voters and Sanders supporters had turned out and voted for Clinton, we would not have Trump appointing his second SC nomination now. If Comey had timed his press releases differently, we would not have Trump appointing his second SC nomination now. If the Russian Troll Farm had not attacked relentlessly, we would not have Trump appointing his second SC nomination now. If Republicans had not spent the last 30 years defaming the Clintons, we would not have Trump appointing his second SC nomination now.

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#307210 - 07/01/18 08:38 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
Thanks, Pia, for pointing out the main point.

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#307213 - 07/02/18 01:55 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1082
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
All of those different things combined to give us Trump. Just about any single one of them could have given Clinton a win. It's no use arguing over it. We're all right.

If third-party voters and Sanders supporters had turned out and voted for Clinton, we would not have Trump appointing his second SC nomination now. If Comey had timed his press releases differently, we would not have Trump appointing his second SC nomination now. If the Russian Troll Farm had not attacked relentlessly, we would not have Trump appointing his second SC nomination now. If Republicans had not spent the last 30 years defaming the Clintons, we would not have Trump appointing his second SC nomination now.


A lot of things gave us trump. I would disagree with your list. THAT is the main point of my argument.

Sanders primary supporters defected at the historical average that all losing primary candidate voters have defected. An exception to this is the amount of Hillary supporters who went republican in her failed primary bid against Obama. Stop scapegoating Sanders supporters. They did they're job and voted for her at historical levels of losing candidate support.

The Russian troll farm is a joke when compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars that were spent by both candidates campaigns and the hundreds of millions of dollars more spent by their dark monies. Well over a billion dollars was spent on propaganda by both candidates to influence public perception. Last I heard, the estimated amount of buy in by the Russians was around 600K.They must be internet Clickbait and Meme geniuses! I must admit, I was almost swayed when I saw Jesus arm wrestling Satan for Trump. For a moment I thought 'Maybe I'm wrong about this guy from Manhattan'.
Comey was a dick. No argument here.




Edited by chunkstyle (07/02/18 01:56 AM)

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#307214 - 07/02/18 02:26 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1082
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Chunk, just admit it. You are the problem. wink

I think, by and large, the voting population simply didn't see the Supreme Court as the issue that it was in the 2016 election, consistent with past history. I am more sensitive to it, since that is the bailiwick that I've lived in for 30+ years. Now, alas, it is too late. (By the way, cs, I don't think you can establish your claim empirically. To wit: Family Feud: Democratic Activists v. Dem...tained Majority.)


PIE CHART FIGHT!!!

Rilly NWP, what is with centrists and their pie charts and graphs!

O.K., I read the article and the first thing that struck me is that it's relevant only in as much as it's looking at the people who voted. What about the people who didn't vote? Why aren't they voting? Cortez's win may give some clues.

Working in a primary can give you some more. Democratic primaries are decided by a very small percentage of voters. single digits. Candidates like this as they only have to focus on the reliable voters that show up and vote and can forget the rest. Costs less too. That worked until, in Crowley's case, it didn't. She brought in more voters than the usual. Enough to do the job to win and show the vulnerability of counting on a small slice of the electorate. How did she bring them in? By going populist and going left she energized a base of voters that had been ignored.....

Finally, the primaries themselves are closed off from Independents. Sanders has called for allowing independents to vote in the primaries to make the party more inclusive to the process. The party has said NO. An independent that is invested in a candidate by voting in the primary is one, I'm gunna guess, that will stick around and vote thru in the general. But again, your referenced article doesn't address these concerns or observations.
I hate to break it to you, bruddah, but the Brooklyn squad was looking at similar numbers and analytics. Remember all the pre-election hype of the amazing machinery the Clinton machine was. Guess what?
It didn't have a left turn signal and couldn't drive to Michigan. The numbers told them they didn't have to.


Edited by chunkstyle (07/02/18 02:35 AM)

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#307215 - 07/02/18 05:09 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8001
Loc: North San Diego County
The Russians may have only spent $600,000 but they spent it on bots, and bots are fantastically cheap. Not to mention that they spent most of that money paying their Russian employees in Russia, where wages are a lot less than the other people spending non-bot dollars for American products.

Simply based on my experience in the months before the election, everywhere I went online that allowed user posts was FLOODED with Russian troll posts. As such it was probably the most massive campaign ever carried out online.

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#307217 - 07/02/18 01:52 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1082
Almost all comment sections devolve into food fights and have been since the dawn of the internet. It may have re-enforced some voters bias, others not so much. Have you had your mind changed by comment postings? How deep into a 3k post comment thread do you go PIA?

Final thought NWP, How does the articles' analysis square the dynamics of the past election with all the left/right leaning activists vs moderates, etc, regarding the decidedly left Sanders primary campaign? Polls were showing him leading by wider margins against Trump as compared to Hillary.
I wonder if the politico's who are downplaying Cortez's victory over Crowley are also looking at pie charts and graphs and concluding it was an anomaly based on race identity and her opponents neglect and drawing the wrong conclusions because, you know, the data informs their logic, etc....

My apologies for pulling the thread off topic (again).


Edited by chunkstyle (07/02/18 01:56 PM)

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#307228 - 07/02/18 08:17 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Couple of things. First, not all states force the voters to declare for a party. I live in the state of washington and our voting thing is, I guess, different. We don't have to tell anybody anything about our party stuff, we also have the top 2 system (the top two in a primary are the final candidates, regardless of party so, for instance, two dems could face off against one another). We also have our ballots mailed to us so we have the onerous duty that requires us to put a stamp on the ballot and mail it back or drop it off at the courthouse. The ballot system is so hard that, in our last election, a whole 38% voted (the final NOT the primary).

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#307233 - 07/03/18 05:04 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
Here's the thing, Chunk. Pie Charts are just graphical representations of the empirical evidence. They are just a way of demonstrating in digestible form the information they are derived from. There's a lot of grousing going on, here. But there is no refuting Pondering's point: "All of those different things combined to give us Trump. Just about any single one of them could have given Clinton a win." Clinton did win the popular vote. It should not have been close, actually. But it was. The difference, really, was discipline. The Republicans voted for their candidate. The Democrats didn't (in the right places). A change of 80,000 votes out of 128,838,342 or .0621% would have changed the result (or about 1/36th of Clinton's popular vote margin).

I'm sorry, but, having been steeped in Political Science since I was a Freshman in college, I tend to think in terms of analysis rather than speculation. The argument that "Bernie would have done better" is meaningless for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which is that it is purely counterfactual. The same polls that are used for that argument also projected Clinton to win by a landslide (she didn't). Statistically speaking, the margin of Trump's victory can be entirely demonstrated to have been the result of Comey's actions. The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election - Fivethirtyeight. There are other reasons, of course, but that is as good as any.

As you noted, of course, this should all have been relegated to a different thread. This thread is supposed to be about the judiciary (or lack thereof).

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#307236 - 07/03/18 06:12 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
The Russians may have only spent $600,000 but they spent it on bots, and bots are fantastically cheap. Not to mention that they spent most of that money paying their Russian employees in Russia, where wages are a lot less than the other people spending non-bot dollars for American products.

Simply based on my experience in the months before the election, everywhere I went online that allowed user posts was FLOODED with Russian troll posts. As such it was probably the most massive campaign ever carried out online.



Do corporate controlled "bots" have free speech rights?
According to the logic of Citizens United, it would appear that they do.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#307240 - 07/03/18 03:33 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
America's Red and Blue Judges - the Atlantic. "Not since the New Deal crisis of 1937 has the Supreme Court been so clearly revealed to the world as fully enmeshed in the rankest partisan politics. There seems little prospect of disengagement any time soon." This year, every major decision by the Court was a Republican decision.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#307296 - 07/06/18 10:27 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
This year, every major decision by the Court was a Republican decision.


You'll hafta get used to it, there's gonna be a bunch of years like that.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307305 - 07/08/18 03:13 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
The problem I see with any nominee is whether he/she is loyal to Mr Trump, which would should be of great concern as that person probably will be involved in any SC proceedings regarding Mr Trump and his possible criminal activities.

He would have the current crop of Republicans who have no integrity and a SC which would side with him on every issue.

This could be as close to a dictatorship in America as we have ever seen or imagined. We may actually be frakked.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#307322 - 07/09/18 04:49 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
When Gorsuch was the nominee, I was of the opinion that it should be fought tooth and nail, for precisely this reason. Sadly, it could still get worse. Ginsburg is 85 and Breyer is 79. Although neither plans to retire...
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#307323 - 07/09/18 07:03 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I was just re-reading this topic. There was a section where folks were talking about how trump won. I think that one is pretty simple. First Hillary. She has been maligned and lied about for about 40 years. During that time she never fought back once to my knowledge. When she debated Trump he was wandering around the stage in a threatening manner and she didn't even call him on that! (even she said she should have done something!) Think on it, Trump was fighting and Hillary was being civilized. If you thought the country needed a change which one would you choose? The one who didn't fight or a fighter? (I voted for Hillary but half the country (or thereabouts did). That is just the tip of the iceburg.

The Republicans took something like 60% to 80% of the states legislatures. One would think that the Dems might have been kinda interested in how and why that happened. Apparently not, it happened very quietly and seems to have come as a genuine surprise which tends to make one think that they were not actually awake when that happened. If you are in a situation wherein you are losing over the course of several years, and you continue as if nothing is happening then I would submit there is a problem that needs fixing. The Dems, however, stuck to their 'civilized' behavor of failure.

There are any number of examples like this but to continue would be beating the dead horse. Now the Republicans are likely to take over the supreme court. When the Republicans held back the Obama supreme selection the Dems should have sued and screamed their heads off. They actually waited a bit after the Republicans bravely said they would do that and then all they did is run their mouths. Now they are running their mouths again and they are going to lose - again.

Seems to me that the blame is soundly in the camp of the left. They got snookered and beat up. My hope is that they stop the whining and get on with figuring it out, and starting to win. They have a chance but would be wise, this time, to actually pay attention (as well as other things) I am equally convinced that they are a lot more that vote against the right than vote for the left, with reason. It would be really nice if we could all actually vote for the left. To have that happen the left, the ENTIRE left, needs to sit down and figure it out instead of having them whiney little foodfights over, really, very little.

As always I wish us all good luck.....................





Edited by jgw (07/09/18 07:04 PM)

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#307324 - 07/09/18 07:18 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Can they outlast Mr Trump?

The next SC nominee with be confirmed solely because he/she will be PC and not answer any questions. Look ... I don't care what their personal political or sociological positions are as long as they follow the Constitution. Unfortunately partisans are only concerned with which political positions a nominee has.

We are in danger of losing of republic ... and it won't be on the battlefields fighting terrorists nor will it be by presidential fiats .... it will be in the quiet halls of 1 First St, NE, Washington DC
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#307330 - 07/09/18 09:20 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
My fond hope is that one or more of these new members will turn out, over time, to not exactly embrace the left but embrace obvious logic instead of political druthers. Its happened before and can again. Remember, they are there for life and they will not lose their job for doing their job, irregardless of politics, unlike our elected class who tend to to whatever it takes to keep their jobs - irregardless of party or even personal belief.


Edited by jgw (07/09/18 09:21 PM)

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#307336 - 07/10/18 04:12 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
In the past (say, Nixon-era), it was possible that a Supreme Court nominee might "drift" from their expected bend. That, however, has not been true since Nixon.

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#307337 - 07/10/18 06:23 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8001
Loc: North San Diego County
I wonder how many cases before the Supreme Court Kavanaugh will have to recuse himself from, because of his history. I know he was on Kenneth Starr's team investigating Clinton and recommending impeachment. I wonder if that will disqualify him on some Trump cases.

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#307339 - 07/10/18 02:30 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
The problem is, there is no standard for Supreme Court recusal. He gets to decide.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#307341 - 07/10/18 02:55 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
There is a report which if true rings of real corruption, in the sense it has greater impact than simply stealing money.

J Kennedy's son apparently was involved in loaning Mr Trump money through Deutsche Bank AG. J Kennedy apparently made contact with administration officials to broker a deal for retirement contingent on an approved replacement which was precipitated by the Mueller investigation which it was thought could lead to SC considerations on presidential powers. It is thought J Kennedy would, because of his integrity, recluse himself. Thus Mr Trump would be able to "pack" the SC with justices who would be loyal to him and rebuff any assault on him, even if justified.

If this is true, it is certainly a dark day ... no a blot of the worse kind, not just on our history but on the American people for allowing this behavior.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#307352 - 07/10/18 06:30 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I find it interesting that it would seem that the Supremes are somehow contaminated and guilty before they have really done something to show their evil ways. So far they seem to have ruled in favor of the law and not in favor of politics. Now there is a new guy joining them and his history would be, pretty much, slightly to the right. This is based on a number of reports of people who are touted as being experts on the Supremes. However, the Dems, valiantly closing the barn door after the horses got loose, are telling us that life on earth, as we know it, will be negatively changed forever.

I would suggest that before condemnation they might wait and see and THEN run their mouths. Right now it seems like sour grapes. The Republicans get to choose because the Republicans won. When the Dems run I expect the same theatrics. The winners get to make the choices, and its that simple and there isn't anything anybody can do about it. The members of the Senate will vote and their vote will reflect their belief in voting in such a way that they can keep their jobs (except for those retiring) This is the way it works, how its always worked, and will continue to work.

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#307354 - 07/10/18 07:18 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Online   content
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Carpal Tunnel

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Originally Posted By: jgw
I find it interesting that it would seem that the Supremes are somehow contaminated and guilty before they have really done something to show their evil ways. So far they seem to have ruled in favor of the law and not in favor of politics.
Respectfully, jgw, I don't know whether that is sarcasm, or you're returning from another planet. Fortunately, in this case, the evil ways of Kavanaugh have been on display for decades. That's why he has been selected by the Federalist Society and Heritage Foundation.

Some highlights: immigrants don't have rights; the federal government can prevent abortions by my minors in custody; Where Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh stands on key issues - CNN.
Quote:
"the government has permissible interests in favoring fetal life, protecting the best interests of a minor, and refraining from facilitating abortion." ... Claiming it was "a new right for unlawful immigrant minors in US government detention to obtain immediate abortion on demand."
. Gay rights? Don't exist; government regulation of business?extremely limited. 'Religious liberty" Trump's "civil rights". Second Amendment supremacy... He's A VERY known quantity.

And where were you when Merrick Garland's seat was stolen? PLEASE tell me you are being sarcastic.

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#307355 - 07/10/18 07:39 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer


And where were you when Merrick Garland's seat was stolen?


The thing that chaps my ass the worst about Garland is the fact that McConnell's team is smugly saying that what they did was legal.
Yeah, it sure was, until he pirouetted from "We do not intend to process a nomination until after the election" to "If Hillary wins, we refuse to process any nominations from her either - - Because: Hillz!"

That's maybe the most egregious case of moving the goalposts I've ever witnessed.

So, is THAT STILL legal? Yeah, it probably is.
So is adding another couple of seats to the SCOTUS and then passing a law that criminalizes frivolous actions designed to prevent a sitting president from nominating a justice without good cause - CONSTITUTIONAL cause.

And for all who wring their hands about the Repubs doing a retaliatory add of a couple of seats in response if they get back in power, don't count on it happening.
For the record, I normally would not be in favor of adding seats however this is a BREAK GLASS IN EMERGENCY situation. We are in uncharted territory with a political party gone full rogue, full foaming at the mouth cult status.

Someone needs to turn the hose on these wild-eyed American mullahs and teach them a lesson.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#307356 - 07/10/18 07:57 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
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By the way, my friend, it is NOT "the way it has always worked." Have you read my previous posts on the subject? Confirmations for the sitting Supreme Court justices were not nearly as partisan as Judge Gorsuch’s. Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch are extremists, and everyone knew that going in.

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#307417 - 07/13/18 08:40 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1082
At least this latest appointment will be bipartisan...

Centrists for the win!

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#308596 - 09/22/18 02:52 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Online   content
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Registered: 09/09/11
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If Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed, there is no hope for the Supreme Court as an institution.

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#308601 - 09/22/18 08:05 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
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I'm going to elaborate on my last post: Brett Kavanaugh was not qualified to be a Supreme Court Justice before disclosure of his 1982 sexual assault, but the process to install him anyway is so abusive it is damaging all three branches of government.

First, Trump, through the "Federalist Society", removed all pretense of a "fair"/rational nominee - making it explicitly partisan and ideological and even providing the litmus test he is using. The Federalist Society is a shockingly regressive cabal of anti-Constitutional, anti-democratic diehards. This is, sadly, not close to an exaggeration. What Is The Federalist Society And How Does It Affect Supreme Court Picks? - npr. Kavanaugh is its poster child. That endorsement alone makes him unqualified, but it doesn't end there.

The Senate, under the influence of Mitch McConnell (who makes Machiavelli seem an amateur), has eviscerated the norms of behavior that once made it the rational brother in Congress, and it has been with the goal of capturing the judiciary. McConnell's foes (and even allies) have underestimated his craven psychopathy (a mental disorder in which an individual manifests amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.). He cares about nothing but personal power. As a result, committees are controlled by him, and rules and norms are ignored (like fairness, due process, constitutionality, and traditions). The Judiciary Committee's behavior is a stark example. I cannot emphasize enough how sick McConnell really is.

Finally, the judiciary, and especially the Supreme Court, has been generationally tainted by ideological purists who are unrepresentative of the population, and do not have the best interests of the people in mind. The damage to justice is deep, and potentially incurable.

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#308605 - 09/22/18 09:09 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
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Registered: 05/22/06
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The supremes have tipped in one direction or another before and we all seemed to survive it. Hopefully we can do it again. I do, however, admire the Democrats for what they have accompished with this one. Even if Kavanaugh gets on the court its going to cost the Republicans bigtime. I think, to seal the deal, that Christine Blasey Ford does Sunday politics. If she does I am assuming that she is capable, well spoken and has at it.

I would really prefer that Kavanaugh does not get on but I think he will. This is because the Dems have been asleep for a long time and the Republicans were able to run roughshod over everything from voting to their wetdreams. I REALLY hope the Dems will sweep it this time around and then, sticking to their guns, stick it to the right with vigor - no more Mr. Nice guy. I can still remember, when Obama took over, how he spent all that time trying to get the Republicans on board and actually join in. He failed, basically because of the Republican system of "my way or the highway" instituted by Newt Gingrich. Republicans tend to be very greedy, to the point where they have decided, publicly and out loud, that they will no longer be willing to discuss ANYTHING with the opposition, never to give an inch, and be willing to do the "all or nothing" thing. They were able to do this because the Dems, I think, simply could not believe it. I betcha they do now!

Hopefully, I think we can do better?

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#308611 - 09/24/18 02:57 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Online   content
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Carpal Tunnel

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Originally Posted By: jgw
The supremes have tipped in one direction or another before and we all seemed to survive it. Hopefully we can do it again. ....

Republicans tend to be very greedy, to the point where they have decided, publicly and out loud, that they will no longer be willing to discuss ANYTHING with the opposition, never to give an inch, and be willing to do the "all or nothing" thing. They were able to do this because the Dems, I think, simply could not believe it. I betcha they do now!
I've written on this at length, so I won't repeat it here, but the 1930s were a near-run thing, that led directly to World War II. Nuclear weapons were not "a thing" yet, then, and the sophisticated espionage tools, and wherewithal to meddle, were not then so developed. Democracies did poorly at the start of the Depression and the start of the second World War. It wasn't far from turning out very differently (nicht gut).
"The Four Horsemen" of the Supreme Court then (Justices Pierce Butler, James Clark McReynolds, George Sutherland, and Willis Van Devanter) were countered by "The Three Musketeers", and are paralleled today by Thomas, Alito, Roberts and Gorsuch - but they didn't have a reliable 5th vote at the time. Kavanaugh would be that vote. and could be for the rest of my life, and yours, and perhaps my sons'.

I agree that it is time "to believe" and to act like this is the existential threat that it is.

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#308614 - 09/24/18 07:44 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
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Posts: 2153
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Oh, I am not saying that Kavanaugh is a good thing but we should be able to survive him. We really won't know until he gets appointed and starts the judging. Until then its really just speculation. "Speculation" also reminds me. TV speculation has gone bat sh*t crazy. This morning TV decided that Rosenstein was being fired today, personally, by Jackass. The simply fact was that he went to the whitehouse for a pre-defined appointment and that Jackass wasn't even there but in New York.

Political reporting, regardless of network or station, is rarely anything other than speculation and its REALLY getting tiresome. I remember the good old days. You know, where there was actual news reporting. Its no accident, for instance, that you can goto https://www.pbs.org/newshour/tag/5-stories-you-might-have-missed for news you might have missed because Jackass, politics, and speculation were found to be more important. The interesting thing about this is that PBS actually knows and has, at least, made an effort to mitigate.

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#308616 - 09/24/18 10:06 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
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Mr Trump has not achieved his goal - Mr Trump 24/7. that would almost truly be the mark of a great person, to be adored and praised all day everyday.

expect more Mr Trump until you really begin regurgitating
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
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#308618 - 09/25/18 12:43 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
I guarantee you that the next three justices will not be seated by Republicans.
The GOP has screwed the pooch so thoroughly this time around that it is doubtful that their lock on power will exist two years from now.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#308619 - 09/25/18 02:46 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I was genuinely astounded that Alito cited to a Lochner-era precedent in his Janus v. AFSCME opinion. That case has been so thoroughly discredited that no rational jurist would rely upon it.


Don't tease us. Please link to something, even just the name of the Lochner Era case itself.
BTW, I see that he referenced Powell. He also makes reference to questionable theories about "unfunded liabilities" in the Illinois budget. Are we to surmise that SCOTUS has now ruled on unfunded liabilities as if they are an altogether consistent and real financial issue?
That's a whole new can of worms.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#308620 - 09/25/18 01:05 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
rporter314 Offline
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I may be prescient

I heard it this morning Mr Trump IS the story here there and everywhere all the time, day and night

so, Mr Trump, you can not achieve anything more than that, so please resign and allow a rational normal person to be president
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
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#308621 - 09/25/18 01:36 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
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Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 362
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Where is our modern day Diogenes when you need him.
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Vote 2020.

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The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

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#308622 - 09/25/18 03:33 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
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No need for Mr Diogenes & his antiquated lantern ... the truth is what Mr Trump says it is ... period/s.

well ... at least 35% of Americans believe that
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
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#308626 - 09/25/18 04:15 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: rporter314
No need for Mr Diogenes & his antiquated lantern ... the truth is what Mr Trump says it is ... period/s.

well ... at least 35% of Americans believe that


If that translates to votes in November we're golden.
But it never seems to work that way.
_________________________
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#308628 - 09/25/18 04:56 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8906
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
I see Kaveman's ex-roommate at Yale says he believes Ramirez because, though the guy was reserved when sober, he was a notoriously heavy drinker and a belligerent and incoherent drunk.

I'd say, "stick a fork in him, he's toast!"
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#308629 - 09/25/18 05:24 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
From your keyboard to god's screen...

But, I wouldn't be in such a hurry to fork your toast. In a sane world, of course you're right. But this is Republican Bizzaro World where nothing is as it seems it should be.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308630 - 09/25/18 06:25 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
My expectation is that Kaveman's growing body of evidence of being a liar will count for more than the "he said, she said" sexual assault allegations, i.e. that he would have us believe that he was an altar boy amongst the Bacchanalian Brigade, when in fact he may have been a nephew of Old Bacchus hisself.

It will only take a few semi-ethical Senators to sink his ship. I think he will disappear from the nomination stage with a quick yank of the venerable sheep herder's crook ere long.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#308631 - 09/25/18 06:38 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: logtroll]
Ma_Republican Offline
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Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
So, I heard that you were at the library 20 years ago and grabbed Miss Crabtree's ass. Miss Crabtree has decided to come forward and ruin your life because she doesn't like liberals. I think that you should suffer the consequences of an over active imagination and selective memory. Oh yeah, Mr. Crabtree also says you grabbed him, but he didn't mind.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
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#308633 - 09/25/18 07:04 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I will be very surprised if Kavenaugh is not sworn in as the next member of the Supremes. He will then be the second right wing liar to be appointed (Thomas being the first). The Dems however have done an absolutely great job on this one. Its really no longer about Kavenaugh to the Supremes and is now all about whether Kavenaugh is a liar. No matter what the right does they are going lose on this one, even if the Kavenaugh appointment goes through.

Again - this is, as far as I am concerned, the fault of the Democratic party that seemed to goto sleep around 2009 and woke up to the simple fact that the Republicans had virtually taken over all the states, took over the congress and worked hard to suppress anybody not voting for the right with some success, and have been lying with nary a squawk from the left.


Edited by jgw (09/25/18 07:07 PM)

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#308634 - 09/25/18 09:35 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
why do conservatives always assume women lie about being sexually harassed?

Yes Tim you have joined the ranks of high profile misogynists such as Sen Hatch, Grassley, Graham and of course Mr Trump.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308635 - 09/25/18 09:59 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: jgw]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
I will be very surprised if Kavenaugh is not sworn in as the next member of the Supremes

I agree. This is a must do and now. Politically the future is tenuous for maintaining political power for Republicans. J Kavanaugh could be the poster boy for every repulsive conservative ideal and still be confirmed.

What amazes me are people like Sen Collins, who have responded to J Kavanaugh by saying he told her he would not overturn Roe. So I have to ask her, it has been a part of the long time conservative agenda to overturn Roe. The Federalist vetted some candidates very carefully to guarantee everyone of them would be agents of change and specifically changes to Roe. So when J Kavanaugh was selected by The Federalist it begs the question why they would select someone who would not overturn Roe. Sen Collins does that make sense?

Accusations:: without a real investigation into the facts ( and not an investigation by political staff members) we could at least have a better idea of someone lied. Specifically we may know of J Kavanaugh has lied about drinking and sexting. Thus the question becomes one of whether we want a liar as a SCJ.

Quote:
Democratic party that seemed to goto sleep around 2009
I am going to push back a little on that.

I think this is a prevalent belief among Democrats but think back to what happened when Pres Obama was elected and contrast that to the current status of Trump's Party. There was a groundswell of bigotry against Pres Obama evidenced by the Tea Party. Has anyone heard a peep from these folks today? Mr Trump has normalized bigotry among Republicans. As recent studies have discovered, it is the driving force of Trump supporters. I didn't need a study to know that as I talk to trump folks and know them well.

So Democrats have to recognize what drives the Trump base (and get real about it ... yes they are bigots) and work around that. This kind of bigotry is deep so they will not be able to change minds. The battle is for the middle. It will be issues that matter for the independents. Almost every issue from domestic to foreign policy should be in play and of course do not exclude Mr Trump as the personification of every anti-American value.

I think it was the failure to recognize the changing Republican base which was at fault. I sensed a change but couldn't put my finger on it until Mr Trump was elected and the ugliness came into the light.

The hope I see is I know at the end of the day progressive ideas will always win. I think we may be experiencing the death throes of racist conservatism. This is their last hope to infect America with their poison. I have been inoculated. Have you?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308636 - 09/25/18 10:49 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8906
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
So, I heard that you were at the library 20 years ago and grabbed Miss Crabtree's ass. Miss Crabtree has decided to come forward and ruin your life because she doesn't like liberals. I think that you should suffer the consequences of an over active imagination and selective memory. Oh yeah, Mr. Crabtree also says you grabbed him, but he didn't mind. Tim

All true, no sense in lying about it!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#308639 - 09/25/18 11:47 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8906
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: rporter314
why do conservatives always assume women lie about being sexually harassed?

I don't think it's an assumption so much as it is a fervent hope.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#308648 - 09/26/18 11:06 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
Ma_Republican Offline
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Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
why do conservatives always assume women lie about being sexually harassed?

Yes Tim you have joined the ranks of high profile misogynists such as Sen Hatch, Grassley, Graham and of course Mr Trump.


I grew up with 4 sisters, all of them are good people. If my sisters had issues of the kind that this woman has alleged, they would have told us about them. They would have told one of their friends, or a teacher.

Mrs. Crabtree's accusation, which has exactly as much evidence as Ms. Blasey Ford's accusation does, is a symptom of smear politics and has no basis in believability. It supposedly happened 35 years ago, at a party where she was partying. Kavanaugh denies the accusation. He said, she said, but in the end it is not believable.

I am, admittedly, a product of my upbringing. Had somebody treated my sister the way that she says he did, I would have taken care of it in a way that would have modified his behavior for a very long time. Everybody has to make a judgment on what to believe. We have the sour grapes of Trump getting elected. We have the Russia circus. We have the press acting an arm of the DNC. We have Obama DOJ and FBI leftovers plotting against a sitting president. We have Dems looking to declare Trump unfit for office and suddenly, out of the blue, we have this? Doesn't pass the smell test.

We have a Republican President seating a second justice and out of the blue here comes accusations aimed at playing on the sympathy created by MeToo? Nah, too coincidental and too convenient. This is politics at its worst, and the Dems should be ashamed of themselves. Kavanaugh, from all of the reports, really is a stand up guy. His politics might be a problem for you guys, but he doesn't deserve this.

Tim


Edited by Ma_Republican (09/26/18 11:08 AM)
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#308649 - 09/26/18 12:50 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

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Tim, with respect, chances are high that at least one of your sisters WAS assaulted. It is probable that at least one of them has been harassed at some point in her life. It is also highly likely that they have not admitted it to anyone, even family members.

I know that one of my sisters (I have three) was attacked in her own home. She has never told the details of it to anyone other than the police. I know that another sister was horribly harassed in high school, and college (not to mention as a federal District Court clerk) but overcame that to become a vice president of a fortune 200 company.

I, like you, would have done violence to the man who attacked my sister, but like the majority of such attackers, he was never caught. To assume we "would've done something" is both to assuage our manhood and deny reality.

You, instead, have made all of the assumptions that "good Republicans" are supposed to make, either willingly or not, despite what your brain tells you, and accepted the party line espoused by Fox News and the party elite. It doesn't make sense, but that doesn't matter, he's "your guy". Bill Cosby is set to begin his sentence for sexual assaults. He was an icon to millions and most of his accusers were silent, or silenced, for years. Donald Trump is an admitted serial assaulter, yet people (especially the "most pious") either ignore, deny, or excuse his egregious behavior to get what they want.

I believe Blasey Ford, not because of partisan fervor, but because of experience and logic. She had/has nothing to gain and the world to lose (as has been amply demonstrated publicly). She, sadly, is all too typical. Kavanaugh loses nothing (He still HAS a lifetime appointment).

Also, sadly, I've also experienced the world he inhabited (although I've never been blackout or pass out drunk). I've been to those kind of parties, I've witnessed first hand some of those activities, and I've failed to step in when I should have, to my shame. His carefully-worded denials (and, yes, lies) are obvious to those who've been there. I can even sympathize with the frustration that happens when one is wrongly accused - been there, too. But, if you watched his Fox interview, you'd recognise it was not that. He knows he can't REALLY deny it all, because he can't remember it all. He was that kind of drunk.

Most tragic of all is he'll get away with it. She, however, has had to live with it for decades and will have to do so for decades more. She was "outed" against her will and dragged into a sham process deliberately designed to put her at a disadvantage. It really isn't a "He said, she said" situation. There were witnesses. Even now there could be corroborating evidence - if it were investigated competently. There could even be exculpatory evidence, but it will never be known. That is the final and most profound tragedy.

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#308650 - 09/26/18 02:09 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Originally Posted By: Tim
If my sisters had issues of the kind that this woman has alleged, they would have told us about them. They would have told one of their friends, or a teacher.


I suspect you are very misinformed. Ignorance is a choice. I implore you to not remain ignorant on this issue and do some research. Here is a sample ... but do your own .... PLEASE

Originally Posted By: A New Survey Finds 81 Percent Of Women Have Experienced Sexual Harassment
Similarly disconcerting is the fact that most victims don't report their experiences, says Decker. "People don't even mention it to friends, families." And so, sexual harassment is "thriving on the silence of women," granting impunity to perpetrators, she says.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308651 - 09/26/18 02:21 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Tim, with respect, chances are high that at least one of your sisters WAS assaulted. It is probable that at least one of them has been harassed at some point in her life. It is also highly likely that they have not admitted it to anyone, even family members.

I know that one of my sisters (I have three) was attacked in her own home. She has never told the details of it to anyone other than the police. I know that another sister was horribly harassed in high school, and college (not to mention as a federal District Court clerk) but overcame that to become a vice president of a fortune 200 company.

I, like you, would have done violence to the man who attacked my sister, but like the majority of such attackers, he was never caught. To assume we "would've done something" is both to assuage our manhood and deny reality.

You, instead, have made all of the assumptions that "good Republicans" are supposed to make, either willingly or not, despite what your brain tells you, and accepted the party line espoused by Fox News and the party elite. It doesn't make sense, but that doesn't matter, he's "your guy". Bill Cosby is set to begin his sentence for sexual assaults. He was an icon to millions and most of his accusers were silent, or silenced, for years. Donald Trump is an admitted serial assaulter, yet people (especially the "most pious") either ignore, deny, or excuse his egregious behavior to get what they want.

I believe Blasey Ford, not because of partisan fervor, but because of experience and logic. She had/has nothing to gain and the world to lose (as has been amply demonstrated publicly). She, sadly, is all too typical. Kavanaugh loses nothing (He still HAS a lifetime appointment).

Also, sadly, I've also experienced the world he inhabited (although I've never been blackout or pass out drunk). I've been to those kind of parties, I've witnessed first hand some of those activities, and I've failed to step in when I should have, to my shame. His carefully-worded denials (and, yes, lies) are obvious to those who've been there. I can even sympathize with the frustration that happens when one is wrongly accused - been there, too. But, if you watched his Fox interview, you'd recognise it was not that. He knows he can't REALLY deny it all, because he can't remember it all. He was that kind of drunk.

Most tragic of all is he'll get away with it. She, however, has had to live with it for decades and will have to do so for decades more. She was "outed" against her will and dragged into a sham process deliberately designed to put her at a disadvantage. It really isn't a "He said, she said" situation. There were witnesses. Even now there could be corroborating evidence - if it were investigated competently. There could even be exculpatory evidence, but it will never be known. That is the final and most profound tragedy.



So, there's the difference. I see politics and you see timidity. The evidence of politics is obvious and current, the lack of evidence for an event 35 years old does not exist. This is a pattern that has repeated itself over the years, which makes me question it more than I probably should have the right to do. I repeat, this is politics nothing more and the Dems should be ashamed of themselves. So the next time somebody like Mrs. Crabtree comes along and accuses somebody of doing unspeakably bad things, a la Bill Clinton or Keith Ellison, I expect the lynch mob to built outside of his office, oh wait, Ellison is still getting a pass from his party? How can that be? It is because this is all politics.

My sister's husband abused her while overseas. She had two kids and was in a land that didn't speak her language and where women were passive by tradition. She called and we flew her and her kids home. There is a chance that somebody may have committed assault on the scumbag husband, maybe. There is a difference between being bullied or harassed and being physically or sexually assaulted.



Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
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#308652 - 09/26/18 02:23 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Originally Posted By: Tim
seating a second justice and out of the blue here comes accusations aimed at playing on the sympathy created by MeToo? Nah, too coincidental and too convenient. This is politics at its worst, and the Dems should be ashamed of themselves.

So why weren't there any accusations against J Gorsuch??? Could it possibly be he did not harass women? and thus there was no one to report such an incident?

Of course you believing Dr Ford is a part of some Democrat conspiracy is even more ludicrous. She would first of all have to agree to destroy her life, then maintain a story which under FBI investigation and under oath subject to penalty of perjury stand by her story. She would have to make it up when J Kavanaugh was nominated. ooops ... wait a sec. She has told this story since 2006 and before J Kavanaugh was ever considered to be nominated for SC to at least 5 people, all of whom have provided statements under oath.

Gee Tim ... you have uncovered one of the most insidious conspiracies in modern politics going back at least 12 years. You had me going for a sec as I like political conspiracy theories ... in the movies. You should become a screenwriter. I think you can sell your fictional conspiracy theories in Hollywood, but not on CHB where facts reign supreme.

Join the other Republicans, Sen McConnell, Grassley, Hatch, Graham and Mr Trump, who should all have busts be in the Hall of Shame.


aside in best Hannity impersonation {{{{{GEEEEEEZ}}}}
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308653 - 09/26/18 02:41 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Originally Posted By: Tim
There is a difference between being bullied or harassed and being physically or sexually assaulted.

And a discussion of the significance of these points should take place.

Here is the difference which is incontrovertible, J Kavanaugh categorically denies the incident ever happened. In my previous comment regarding your conspiracy theory, I would suspect her story is accurate. Thus we have a person nominated for the SC who more than likely lied about an incident in high school.

Now if he lied about that what else has he lied about? We know The Federalist did not select and vet anyone who would not overturn Roe, so why did he lie to a number of Senators that he would not overturn Roe. Is The Federalist selecting people who are not conservatives?

So we are faced with the hypocrisy of confirming a person who lies about any number of issues and allowing sexual assaults against women. Really???

Yes this is political and it is obvious to everyone but you. Republicans are operating on fear of losing the House and now the possibility of the Senate. That would mean the Senate would not be able to confirm another extremist nominee. Sen McConnell knows he is against a time constraint and has to get J Kavanaugh confirmed or lose this confirmation. The whole process has become a political spectacle with complete transparency.

The Republican Judiciary does not care about the accusations but has to go through the process for appearances. Who are they fooling? They are trying to save the only thing they can before the midterms.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308654 - 09/26/18 05:04 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
They are trying to save the only thing they can before the midterms.

Just as they were trying to save everything they could by denying Merrick Garland a hearing.
As it turned out, Gorsuch was seated.

Kavanaugh will likely be confirmed on Friday.

Say what you will. Republicans get their way by hook or by crook.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308661 - 09/26/18 06:03 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I too believed that Kavanaugh would be confirmed. I am no longer sure and think I was probably wrong. Don't mind being wrong on this even a little bit!

My suspicion is that if they actually call for an FBI investigation he will drop out.

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#308662 - 09/26/18 06:49 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Tough call

If J Kavanaugh had any integrity, under normal circumstances he would withdraw rather than put Republicans in a bad situation, regardless of his personal ethical status. But these are not normal times. Republicans may decide they need an ultra-conservative on SC to protect the administration and implement their long held agenda.

I believe Republicans have been to the crossroads, so they will keep J Kavanaugh from withdrawing and "guarantee" him a seat on SC, quid pro quo.

I still believe they will confirm 3 to 2, down a little, but they have too much at stake, so they will take the hickey for the team.


Edited by rporter314 (09/26/18 10:32 PM)
Edit Reason: misleading numbers on vote odds
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308665 - 09/26/18 08:09 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Apparently the Evangelicals are the ones threatening to bolt if the Republicans don't confirm Kavanaugh. There are, however, some senators who are not running again who seem troubled by the whole Kavanaugh thing as well as some of the female senators.

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#308666 - 09/26/18 10:35 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
They may lose one of the women Senators but not both. Sen Corker and Flake will toe the line and of course VP Pence will decide the vote.

If Dr Ford has a great media presence she may persuade the wavering few, otherwise see above.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308667 - 09/26/18 10:40 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
the Evangelicals are the ones threatening to bolt if the Republicans don't confirm Kavanaugh.


Bolt? To where? The Democratic Party? Fat chance of that but religious types seem more likely than most to approve of and engage in sexual misconduct.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308673 - 09/27/18 04:40 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8001
Loc: North San Diego County
I read that there is an investigation underway in Maryland, because they have no statute of limitations on sex crimes. One woman swore under oath (under penalty of perjury) that she was raped at a party with Kavanaugh there. Authorities have to investigate, under the state law. So even if he is confirmed, he may be the first Supreme Court Justice to be convicted of a felony and sentenced to prison!

That would take some time, so he could be confirmed and then indicted when the Democrats control the Senate and before he heard any case about Trump. This may work out perfectly after all.

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#308674 - 09/27/18 05:52 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
I think the odds of Kavanaugh getting out of committee have dropped to 50-50. If Senator Flake votes "no" in committee, the vote would be 10-11 against. It should not come out of committee. But McConnell is not about to let substance, process, or reality interfere with the vote, and has scheduled a floor vote for Friday. Note: even Clarence Thomas got a "tie" from the judiciary committee (7-7). He's the only Justice I'm aware of that didn't get a recommendation from the committee and still got confirmed (52-48).

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#308675 - 09/27/18 01:08 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
McConnell ... has scheduled a floor vote for Friday.

I can't find that. The Judiciary Cmte will vote on Friday but all I can find is a floor vote may happen on Tuesday.

Republicans are trying to keep the procedural clock running to try and get a vote before Oct 1. Everything they are doing suggests the current hearing is meaningless and strictly meant to deflect poor optics (come on ... it is not poor optics but real substantive tone deafness ... these folks are clueless) and try to induce some empathy from a constituency which would be most offended by the Republican's callous lack of empathy for victims of sexual assault.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308676 - 09/27/18 01:16 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
I think the odds of Kavanaugh getting out of committee have dropped to 50-50

Unless the vote is 0-21 Sen McConnell will bring to floor. I believe he has the whip count and will probably use VP Pence vote to confirm.

Sen Collins sold out if she believes J Kavanaugh will not overturn Roe at first opportunity. Sen Murkowski may see the light and with all the allegations (none of which can be proved) she may opt to vote "No" on floor (I think Sen McConnell knows this). Sen Flake may vote no in cmte vote but probably yes on floor. Sen Corker will toe the line.

So with a 50-50 tie on floor, VP Pence will do his duty as a Christian, a conservative and a Republican (what happened to country?) and vote for confirmation.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308677 - 09/27/18 01:39 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8906
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
In reviewing Trump's presser yesterday, he vaguely alluded to his #2 pick about 5 or 6 times. That seems to be a standard Trumpian "tell" when he's about to axe somebody. It portends that he is now seeing B. Kavanaugh as a "loser" who he intends to yank to preserve his own fine and self-bestowed reputation as a "winner".
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#308678 - 09/27/18 03:31 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
It's largely out of Trump's hands if this comes out of committee, which it most likely will.

Today's hearing is a farce, all the Republicans involved have made their decision.

Floor vote will go as predicted. Kavanaugh will be confirmed. The Supreme Court will have lost it's credibility.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308679 - 09/27/18 03:49 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I don't think Mr Trump understands the politics or the urgency of getting an extremist on the Court. I am fairly certain there is not enough time remaining before Jan 20 to nominate, have hearings, and confirm. If it were otherwise, Republicans would have taken the time to really investigate and not be publicly embarrassed by this nominee. As it is, there is no "assistant" who can apply enough lipstick to cover the blatant misogyny presented by Republicans. The damage was done and they deserve the blowback.

What a scene - Mr Trunp calls Sen McConnell and tells him to take J Kavanaugh off the list and replace with #2. Sen McConnell tells Mr Trump no can do. Has to be J Kavanaugh, no matter how ugly it appears and no matter how it will impact the midterms. So will Mr Trump tell Sen McConnell replace him? Mr Trump is well known for not being confrontational. He will acquiesce and blame Sen McConnell for the failure of confirming a 2nd rate nominee.

But I would like to see the argument how it would work.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308680 - 09/27/18 06:25 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
regardless of what happens next, it should be clear to everyone with a brain, the title of this thread is an accurate assessment of the current state of the high court.

the country is too divided to formulate real bi-partisan laws much less making substantive changes to the Constitution. Thus we are left with the proposition the SC will be legislating from the bench for some time to come. This guarantees the political schism in America will continue for some time.

We have entered America's Dark Age
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308691 - 09/28/18 03:59 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
If any watched the Republican "questions" of J Kavanaugh, you know today's hearing was nothing more than an opportunity for Republicans to defend J Kavanaugh and had nothing to do with trying to find some kind of truth. His character display leaves nothing to the imagination. The way he acted suggests the allegations of belligerence when drunk are believable. His failure to beg for an independent FBI investigation to clear his name did it for me. There can be only one reason he does not want the FBI to ask questions ... he lied.

But of greater importance will be the vote in morning. I predict 10-11. I predict Sen McConnell will bring it to the floor Sunday. I predict J Kavanaugh will be confirmed 51-50 with VP Pence casting the deciding vote.

I am hoping I am wrong
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308692 - 09/28/18 04:04 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
I have not yet watched all of the testimony today, but I have seen enough to reach a firm conclusion that Brett Kavanaugh should not be on ANY bench in the United States. He has not evolved beyond being a partisan hack. Good God this man does not have the temperament to be a jurist. He's, frankly, dangerous.

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#308693 - 09/28/18 05:27 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8001
Loc: North San Diego County
The biggest logical hole you could drive a truck through: What happens when the Democrats take the House and hold a real investigation? They subpoena Judge and he throws Kav under the bus. Then what? What happens when Maryland prosecutors indict Kav? Supreme Court Justices have no Presidential immunity, and Presidential pardons have no effect on state charges. How is he going to hear cases sitting in state prison?

If Democrats take the Senate (which is more likely if they confirm him) then they refuse to replace him with any Trump pick. Republicans lose everything. The only sensible thing for them to do is throw him under the bus right now and confirm some other less rapey Federalist pick. There's a woman on that list: She probably never assaulted anybody. Well, she IS a Republican so maybe she did.

The Republican long term strategy must have been designed by the same firm that designed the Titanic.

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#308697 - 09/28/18 01:09 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
If any Republican had any political sense at all, what you said should have happened, but these are Trumpian times. The Party of Trump knows this is the last best chance to get an ultra conservative on the SC who will overturn Roe and implement long held conservative views through judicial activism i.e. legislating from the bench. These are the political realities which every thinking person with any serious interest in politics knows.

J Kavanaugh can not withdraw. He can be canned by Mr Trump, but Sen McConnell probably has already told Mr Trump that will not happen. J Kavanaugh is the horse that brung 'em. There will be a floor vote after 3 days of intense arm twisting. This is their last best chance.

Will he be confirmed? I believe he has a better than even chance. You've seen my comments in previous posts. I would be very surprised if he comes in down 2.

caveat: all comments are of course predicated on current knowledge. if Sen Grassley calls for an FBI investigation (so improbable or other intervening events) then calculus dictates a recalculation.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308698 - 09/28/18 05:03 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Republicans lose everything.

No, no they don't. As much as I would like to believe that this harms them in some way, I'm pretty sure that not a single mid-term vote will be altered by this.

Minds are already made up. What's going to happen is already set in stone.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308699 - 09/28/18 05:06 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
Party over principle; Party Uber Alles! Flake will vote Yes.

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#308702 - 09/28/18 06:15 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Flake will vote Yes.


Was there any doubt? That also was written in stone. He doesn't particularly like Trump, but he is a Republican. Party first, at all costs.

It's out of committee and Kav has advanced. Any doubt about the Senate floor vote?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308704 - 09/28/18 08:12 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
The originalists are having a conniption fit over delays in the Kavanaugh vote.

Originalism is a fig leaf for tentherism minus 2, or eightherism.
Unenumerated Constitutional rights exist, and that fact was unambiguously stated by the Founding Fathers in the 9th Amendment. The Constitution is a living document, and the 9th Amendment, together with Article V's Amending formula is what gives it life.

The Preamble of the Constitution talks about forming a more perfect Union....not to treating the document as some ship in bottle whose sails never touch the winds of change.

There would be no need for a SCOTUS at all in this day and age if you take originalism to its ultimate conclusion because a software program could just parse the 12,134 words in the document and basically do a slightly more sophisticated "F3" as to whether or not a case is valid.

A trained monkey could be a SCOTUS justice. Then again, when you talk to Norquist worshippers, that's all they want in the White House.
I sense a connection, and it smells a lot like totalitarianism.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#308705 - 09/28/18 08:22 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
MICHAEL AVENATTI on TWITTER:

Warning - If the committee advances the nomination this afternoon, my client and I are going to thoroughly enjoy embarrassing @ChuckGrassley @LindseyGrahamSC @tedcruz and all of the other GOP members on the committee this weekend when her story is told and is deemed credible.


And if you think I am bluffing, you have not been paying attention the last 7 months. I don’t traffic in nonsense. I traffic in facts and evidence.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#308706 - 09/28/18 08:34 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
Brett Kavanaugh really really likes to perjure.

Quote:
Hatch: Now, this is an important question. Did Mr. Miranda ever share, reference, or provide you with any documents that appeared to you to have been drafted or prepared by Democratic staff members of the Senate Judiciary Committee?

Kavanaugh: No, I was not aware of that matter ever until I learned of it in the media late last year.


There are an awful lot of kids who got busted for eighteen year old drinking who'd like their cases dismissed now that Kavanaugh has retroactively declared that the MD drinking age was eighteen on the date he "allegedly" assaulted Ms. Ford.

Oh wait, he can't do that, it's actually called PERJURY and it's a crime.

Drinking at 18 was legal when I WAS in high school, but I'm Walter Johnson HS Class of 1975.
GO SPARTANS.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#308711 - 09/29/18 09:34 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8001
Loc: North San Diego County
It was legal in DC, but by the time he got to Maryland where it was not he was probably already drunk. Alcohol consumed in large quantities can interfere with a drinker's memory.


Edited by pondering_it_all (09/29/18 09:38 AM)
_________________________
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John Steinbeck

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#308718 - 09/29/18 10:45 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Irked Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3466
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
Just shooting this in here ‘cuz it seems like a likely spot. Not trying to hijack the thread. It’s just that it’s driving me crazy that no one in the Democratic Party seems to have studied anything like rhetoric, communications, marketing, even law. How hard is it to sculpt a winning message against what the Republican Party has been doing to the political process and the judiciary?

How, for example, is no one coming out with the completely rational argument for sitting on the Ford evidence.

1) Ford apparently requested that it not be made public.
2) We fully believed that an objective review of Kavanaugh’s demeanor, history of dissembling, and blatant partisanship would be more than enough to disqualify him from the SCOTUS.
3) Given 2, isn’t better for all involved to keep the Ford information out of the process?
_________________________
How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

I consider myself to be a laid back type and quite tolerant on most issues - AB Breivik

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#308719 - 09/30/18 12:23 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Irked]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
1. The problem with explaining the obvious i.e. Dr Ford asked not to be involved and to be kept anonymous, was destroyed by the person who leaked her letter to The Intercept. This is what suggests a Democrat conspiracy to subvert the already flawed Judiciary process. It would not matter if Dr Ford came out and told everyone that, no one would believe it.

2. Yes but the problem is not rational thought and consideration of country above party, it is Republican single minded pursuit of power and to accomplish that would be easier if the SC was packed with people who had that as their agenda. Therefore it wouldn't matter if J Kavanaugh was a baby eater, once nominated he was their choice to be on the court.

3. Would have been but see my #2. There was only one way to actually see J Kavanaugh in the raw and that was for Dr Ford's info to be public. It would have been better had DR Ford been more forthright and come forward early in the process but understanding her situation, there should be a protocol for processing anonymous information in the future which can be analyzed in a timely fashion.

From my bleacher seat J Kavanaugh demonstrated during the hearing he is clearly does not have the demeanor to be a person confirmed to the high court.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308724 - 09/30/18 06:32 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The goals of the current Republican party is pretty clear. They want to turn the United States of America into the United Protestant Christian United States of America. The reason the party is being so adamant about Kavanaugh is that the Righteous Right has threatened to withdraw support unless he is put on the court. There are no secrets about this one - its a simple fact. The part I really don't understand is that the opposition has yet to say this right out loud. Instead they continue to tippy toe around so as not to offend anybody.

This is, as far as I am concerned, one of the problems! The constitution, you know the one the right is always quoting, is very clear about religion and government. Their goal is to 'fix' that one and, so far, they have been winning. Its a bit stealthy but easily defined and just as easily understood.

Its REALLY time the opposition stand up. Right now its all about women's rights. Women, for instance, have been suppressed, by religion, for centuries yet, when it comes to religion they are oddly quiet. Its time to address this thing straight on and stop beating around the bushes!

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#308737 - 10/01/18 05:53 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
the Righteous Right has threatened to withdraw support unless he is put on the court.

Poppycock. They will vote Republican just as they always do. Kavanaugh is nobody special, judges like him are a dime a dozen and any one of them will vote according to the wishes of the evangelicals...He's not even a Protestant!
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308738 - 10/01/18 06:06 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Its REALLY time the opposition stand up.


They stood up and destroyed the life and credibility of a Supreme Court nominee, cast doubt on the selection process and dragged the Republican party through the mud just before the midterms.

This wasn't about women, or assault, or anybody's rights. This was hardball politics played out by "the opposition" with the willful assistance of the media.

And now an FBI which has been much slandered by the president is going to get a shot at him.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308739 - 10/01/18 06:22 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Irked]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
no one in the Democratic Party seems to have studied anything like rhetoric, communications, marketing, even law. How hard is it to sculpt a winning message against what the Republican Party has been doing to the political process and the judiciary?

Day in and day out the press sculpts the message, thousands upon thousands of anti-Trump anti-Republican headlines, newsreels, reports, interviews, stories with graphs and statistics. Republicans are assailed from all sides all day every day. All to no avail.

Voters have chosen sides and nothing will sway them to change. Conservatives are completely unaffected by facts.





Edited by Greger (10/01/18 06:23 PM)
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308741 - 10/01/18 06:37 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8001
Loc: North San Diego County
What's with Trump respecting the FBI all of a sudden? Is that just so he can tweet about how corrupt they are when they do their job and return a Kavanaugh report that is damaging?

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#308744 - 10/01/18 08:35 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am beginning to consider a better method to approach voters is not through re-litigation of a conservative laundry list of indignities, but through messaging on your agenda. What can Democrats bring to the table which will move the country forward.

There is no point (as many in this and other threads have typed) in trying to convince TrumpZombies through logical discourse of anything.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308749 - 10/01/18 10:14 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
The message is...
Universal healthcare.
Subsidized college education.
A living wage.
Clean energy.
Investment in infrastructure.
Keeping Social Security solvent.
Legalizing weed.
Immigration reform.

Does there really need to be a message? These things generally speak for themselves. Every Democrat already knows this is what we are aiming for. No message needed. What's needed is votes.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308750 - 10/02/18 12:40 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 362
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
I would make one change to your list, replace Legalizing weed to Legalizing Medical weed.
_________________________
Vote 2020.

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#308759 - 10/02/18 04:50 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ujest Shurly]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8001
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Legalizing weed [versus] Legalizing Medical weed


Not much difference, really. Weed cures insomnia, so anybody can claim a medical need. It also may be the preventative treatment for Alzheimer's Disease, so anybody can claim they want it to prevent that.

In California, anybody can grow 6 plants and keep a pound at home. Get a medical card and you can grow whatever you need, and keep whatever you grow.

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#308762 - 10/02/18 07:50 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida

Shurly, I know your primary objection is potheads driving. The number of those on the highway is not going to change with legalization.
The only thing that changes if you legalize weed is that people don't go to jail for possessing it. They might still go to jail for driving under the influence.
Are you honestly in favor of people going to jail for having a bag of weed in their pocket? Bearing in mind that people of color are ten times as likely to get arrested than whites?

Should a prescription be required to use alcohol? If weed is evil then alcohol is the very devil.

Besides, this is a bi-partisan juggernaut that cannot be stopped. Once it comes off the Schedule One list it's all over. You and JeffBo Sessions can't stop it. I think I can safely predict that the next Democratic congress will remove it from Schedule One.

Everything else on that list is just as inevitable.
In the end, liberals always win. Because we're right.


Edited by Greger (10/02/18 08:02 PM)
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308764 - 10/02/18 11:41 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ujest Shurly]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13343
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
I would make one change to your list, replace Legalizing weed to Legalizing Medical weed.


We now know how the so called "medical marijuana" game gets played, and it's basically a means of punishing medical users and making them second class citizens.

Medical users all over the country are losing professional licenses
law, medical, you name it...some states are even attempting to deny DRIVER'S LICENSES. They are denied the right to own firearms, pursue professional certifications, teaching jobs.
Medical users are also losing their health insurance in some states as well.

The answer to worries about marijuana use on the road is simple...it is NOT ALLOWED, no different than alcohol. It is a DUI, same as alcohol.
Buzzed drivers have been getting busted the same as drunk drivers for decades. These days the technology is advancing faster than alcohol detection.

Sorry but this so called "medical marijuana" scheme is just a way to turn medical users into pariahs.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#308772 - 10/03/18 12:43 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
Brett Kavanaugh is damaged goods, and most of the damage he did to himself. No rational Senator should vote for him, period. I Know Brett Kavanaugh, but I Wouldn’t Confirm Him Ben Wittes (Atlantic, subscription). That he may still get confirmed is an indictment, and I use that term advisedly, of the process, the standards (or lack thereof), and the body considering his nomination. Mitch McConnell may be the worst majority leader in history (it's hard to say, because the history is sparse) because of the malicious damage he has done to our institutions. He is an evil, soulless, person. He has done, probably irreparable, damage to the Senate, the courts and the presidency. Brett Kavanaugh's elevation would be his "crowning" achievement.

A Supreme Court Justice should, to the extent humanly possible, be "above reproach". As has been written since its creation, the court's power comes from its moral suasion - it speaks for the people, but has neither the power of the purse, nor coercive authority. It needs to be seen as a neutral arbiter, a non-partisan institution, to be effective. Confidence in the Supreme Court has waned, and Kavanaugh is the least popular nominee since polling has addressed the question. It took a decade (and the appointment of Kagan and Sotomayor) for the court's reputation to recover from Thomas's elevation. It may not recover from Kavanaugh's.

To restore the court's credibility, Kavanaugh must be rejected. If Democrats regain the majority in the Senate, they should insist on a consensus nominee - Like Merrick Garland was - rather than a partisan. That likely means no one on Trump's current list, and might require return of the filibuster. The least supported nominees have been Alito 58, Gorsuch 54, and Thomas 52, the most partisan appointees. All Dem nominees have been super-majority approvals, as was Roberts. That should be the standard. The test for a Supreme Court Justice should not be "is he/she acceptable?" but, the best qualified. Being free of scandal, a reputation for probity, and free of partisan taint should be givens. Kavanaugh had none of those qualities, and questions of integrity are paramount (again he fails).

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#308773 - 10/03/18 03:38 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Brett Kavanaugh is damaged goods, and most of the damage he did to himself. No rational Senator should vote for him, period. I Know Brett Kavanaugh, but I Wouldn’t Confirm Him Ben Wittes (Atlantic, subscription). That he may still get confirmed is an indictment, and I use that term advisedly, of the process, the standards (or lack thereof), and the body considering his nomination. Mitch McConnell may be the worst majority leader in history (it's hard to say, because the history is sparse) because of the malicious damage he has done to our institutions. He is an evil, soulless, person. He has done, probably irreparable, damage to the Senate, the courts and the presidency. Brett Kavanaugh's elevation would be his "crowning" achievement.

A Supreme Court Justice should, to the extent humanly possible, be "above reproach". As has been written since its creation, the court's power comes from its moral suasion - it speaks for the people, but has neither the power of the purse, nor coercive authority. It needs to be seen as a neutral arbiter, a non-partisan institution, to be effective. Confidence in the Supreme Court has waned, and Kavanaugh is the least popular nominee since polling has addressed the question. It took a decade (and the appointment of Kagan and Sotomayor) for the court's reputation to recover from Thomas's elevation. It may not recover from Kavanaugh's.

To restore the court's credibility, Kavanaugh must be rejected. If Democrats regain the majority in the Senate, they should insist on a consensus nominee - Like Merrick Garland was - rather than a partisan. That likely means no one on Trump's current list, and might require return of the filibuster. The least supported nominees have been Alito 58, Gorsuch 54, and Thomas 52, the most partisan appointees. All Dem nominees have been super-majority approvals, as was Roberts. That should be the standard. The test for a Supreme Court Justice should not be "is he/she acceptable?" but, the best qualified. Being free of scandal, a reputation for probity, and free of partisan taint should be givens. Kavanaugh had none of those qualities, and questions of integrity are paramount (again he fails).


I only hope, that once he is confirmed, and takes his place on the bench, he takes revenge upon your party for the smear campaign leveled against him. Sometimes, payback is not only delicious, but required!

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#308775 - 10/03/18 03:57 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8906
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
I only hope, that once he is confirmed, and takes his place on the bench, he takes revenge upon your party for the smear campaign leveled against him. Sometimes, payback is not only delicious, but required!Tim

WOW!!

Thanks for the bare naked confession of the soul of Conservatism...
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#308776 - 10/03/18 03:59 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Quote:
If Democrats regain the majority in the Senate, they should insist on a consensus nominee


That is Trump's next SC pick.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#308777 - 10/03/18 04:06 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: logtroll]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
I only hope, that once he is confirmed, and takes his place on the bench, he takes revenge upon your party for the smear campaign leveled against him. Sometimes, payback is not only delicious, but required!Tim

WOW!!

Thanks for the bare naked confession of the soul of Conservatism...


Your party pulls this crap all of the time and then asks for make-up sex because it is good for the country, ie, good for the Democratic Party. You tried to ruin this guy's life. When you play politics, and put everything on the line, and lose, you have to expect that the consequences are proportional to the position. Well, you guys probably just got screwed. If I were him, I would have been irate too,

If Kav gets confirmed, then I hope he takes special revenge upon your party's hopes and prayers. I hope he takes special pleasure in stopping anything that your party wants his vote for. Payback is a bitch, and if/when he is confirmed, the Democratic party will become his.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#308778 - 10/03/18 04:33 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Remember Merrick Garland?

We got your payback right here.

I'm pretty sure it was you that said politics is a contact sport.

Quote:
You tried to ruin this guy's life.

No, we ruined it. He will now be known all over the world as a rapist, a drunk, and a liar.
And Republicans will be know for seating a rapist, a drunk, and a liar to the supreme court.
Have a nice day.

Mark
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308779 - 10/03/18 04:54 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Sweet ... I love it

Smear Campaign :: " a planned attempt to harm the reputation of a person or company by telling lies about them" Cambridge Dictionary

please lay out the plan you see. It must start in 1982. Dr Ford (then student Ford) concocted a plan with Democrat strategists knowing that in 2018 Mr Trump would nominate an extremist jurist for the SC. She would then lie in wait coming forth only at the last moment to falsely accuse the nominee of sexual assault. Incredible!

or inconceivable

I suspect every conservative suffers from political paranoia i.e. my words to denote a belief the opposition party is out to get them by nefarious plots and conspiracies.

Democrats mostly are not in favor of J Kavanaugh as he is an extremist, vetted by The Federalist Society, almost specifically to overturn Roe and secondarily to support other right wing agenda issues, as legalization and expansion of religious discrimination against those disfavored by fundamentalist denominations, etc. Democrats could not possibly stop the confirmation as Republicans control the Senate. Except of course to implement the extraordinary conspiracy conceived in 1982 (can you imagine asking a student in 1982 to falsely accuse a fellow student of sexual improprieties some time in the far distant future, which would destroy their life to become the Manchurian accuser? maybe in the fevered mind of a paranoid conservative).

But even more inconceivable is your thought J Kavanaugh once confirmed should begin a vendetta against Democrats. Look ... words are failing me as I think of what you are suggesting. Everything my ancestors fought for - out the frakking window. Everything the Founders thought, wrote, and hoped for - out the frakking window. Sounds like you want a Russian dictatorship as the New American Democracy. Maybe you want to round up Democrats and strap the suicide vests to them.

My God ... what has become of America ... I see madness coming from MA ... destruction of America ... and the author of those thoughts is Tim
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308781 - 10/03/18 05:07 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Your party pulls this crap all of the time

Could you provide a short list. I am in need of some serious political education. If Democrats are doing crap, I want to know about it.

Quote:
You tried to ruin this guy's life.

So should I conclude Republicans would not said anything about ::
1. Pres Clinton getting BJ in WH
2. 7 political investigations into Benghazi
3. Russians surrounding either Clinton or Obama campaigns
4. etc

So what you are saying is don't bring up anything and simply confirm everyone nominated, even rapists, serial killers, tax frauds, etc. After all you wouldn't want to destroy their families.

Quote:
[political] Payback is a bitch

I would expect those words from 3rd world dictators but not from an American. Am I mistaken in thinking you are an American?

My 13 Revolutionary War veterans would wonder if their blood was worth me reading what you have typed.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308782 - 10/03/18 05:12 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
We live in a desert.

Originally Posted By: The American President
They're so thirsty for it, they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand. ... People don't drink the sand, because they're thirsty. They drink it because they don't know the difference


And these are the times we live
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308790 - 10/04/18 12:15 AM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
It must be nice to occupy the fantasy world you inhabit, Ma. Logic, reality, morality have no role to play. You can make any accusation, allegation, or assumption without reference to reason, reality, fact or consequence. It would, I think, be really funny (in a reality, comeuppance, irony kind of way) of you got to live in a real world as you imagine it to be. But, no. You'll collect your Social Security, apply for Medicare, and take advantage of all those perks Democrats have supplied throughout your lifetime. Of course, if you weren't an entitled, white male, you might see it differently.

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#308812 - 10/04/18 04:53 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Logic, reality, morality have no role to play. You can make any accusation, allegation, or assumption without reference to reason, reality, fact or consequence.


Cult members have no need of logic, reality, or morality.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308813 - 10/04/18 05:43 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Some Cult Headlines...

Quote:
Christian prophet: Hurricane Florence was created by liberals to cover up mass voter fraud in North Carolina


Quote:
Christian author defends Kavanaugh: ‘The bible says it’s not rape if the woman doesn’t scream’


Quote:
Ex-GOP senator who voted for anti-trans ‘bathroom bill’ gets 15 years for child sex trafficking


Quote:
Cruz: School shootings happen because ‘we’ve removed God from the public square’


Quote:
Female Trump supporter to MSNBC: ‘Groping women is no big deal’


Quote:
Pat Robertson to God: Please ‘throw confusion’ into Kavanaugh’s accusers


Quote:
Man who believes the earth is 6,000 years-old is helping to revise Arizona’s education standards on evolution


And somehow they still think we should take them seriously.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308814 - 10/04/18 06:35 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
You have to consider them seriously ... they have more than a foothold in them political arena
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308822 - 10/05/18 04:45 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
The cloture vote was 51-49 with one crossover from each party.

Sen Manchin may vote no because he would have some cover but it would depend on Sen Collins. I suspect she will vote yes. If he votes no then J Kavanaugh would get confirmed.

I don't know how Democrats would act if one of their nominees acted the same way J Kavanaugh acted. Maybe they would be just as hypocritical. All I know is I would not vote for a nominee who while qualified did not have the appropriate demeanor to be a SCJ. I had idealistically believed for a long time there was still some integrity in Washington but I was and am mistaken.

tabula rasa
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308824 - 10/05/18 08:13 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think its pretty interesting to what extent that the Republicans will go to get Kavanaugh into the supreme court. I watch the guy who heads up the Federalist Society. He said that all the judges they recommended were, basically, the same and they didn't pick any favorites in that list. Be that as it may, the Evangelicals have apparently told the Republicans its Kavanaugh or they are going to walk so they better get it done which, I think, makes him their guy?

It would also seem that the religious, other than the Evangelicals don't agree.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/churches-kavanaugh-nomination-withdrawn/

One can only wonder? Oh, and praise the Lord?


Edited by jgw (10/05/18 08:19 PM)

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#308825 - 10/05/18 08:53 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14370
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I think its pretty interesting to what extent that the Republicans will go to get Kavanaugh into the supreme court.


It's a political pissing contest. They can't ever once let the enemy get the upper hand. They took some damage but they stood by their refusal to ever compromise on anything.
Merrick Garland didn't hurt them, this won't hurt them.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308831 - 10/06/18 12:44 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16304
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I think its pretty interesting to what extent that the Republicans will go to get Kavanaugh into the supreme court.


It's a political pissing contest. They can't ever once let the enemy get the upper hand. They took some damage but they stood by their refusal to ever compromise on anything.
Merrick Garland didn't hurt them, this won't hurt them.
But, it WILL hurt Us, plenty.

I'm currently at the happiest place on earth, it's my birthday, but, I'm miserable at the place we find ourselves, politically and socially, with the farce of a hearing, the joke of an "investigation", and the cavalier bullying in the Senate. That someone as richly undeserving of elevation to the Supreme Court, and as unpopular and unrepresentative, as Brett Kavanaugh, is about to be, is unnerving. It's hard to be happy and idealistic in such pessimistic times. No one in power cares about "The good of the country" anymore.

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#308841 - 10/07/18 02:55 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41054
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Chief Justice John Roberts has been sitting on ‘more than a dozen’ judicial complaints against Kavanaugh for three weeks: report
Raw Story
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Contrarian, extraordinaire



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