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#306747 - 05/14/18 04:22 PM Re: A Thought [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16236
I agree with the seminal thought that initiated this thread: the focus of forearm legislation should be on "regulating the militia". There's a good, readable, history of "the militia" on Wikipedia. It's a good place to start.

Understanding the conception of the "organized" and "unorganized" militia, it would be conceptually easy to restrict possession of certain "arms, ammunition and military hardware" to the organized militia. Other, "non-martial" materiel could be allowed to the "unorganized" militia (i.e., everyone else), for sport, recreation, and personal protection uses - and for emergency use when called to service.

Note, I said "conceptually easy". Legislators are long out of practice in applying concepts to legislation. They tend to legislate based upon "notions" and lobbyist's creations. But reinvigorating the concept of "the militia" in the minds of the populace (and electorate) does a number of good things. People yearn to be "part of". Imagine the power of being "part of" the protection of society. "See something, say something" is exactly the kind of program that would be part of such an effort. Yes, it can be misused, but it is still "Civic engagement" - what used to be called, "good citizenship".

From there, when people feel invested in the process, they become involved. Given the cast of opinions in polling, good things can happen with an involved citizenry - like rational firearms laws, protection of the social safety net, etc.

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#306748 - 05/14/18 06:11 PM Re: A Thought [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6526
Loc: Highlands, Tx
"rational" and "firearms" are two words which can not be juxtaposed in the same argument.

I just read from the Conservative Dictionary the meaning of "regulate firearms" ... it means the government will take away the firearms or no righteous conservative will ever listen to any proposal with the word "regulate" in it. Beside, Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, it was a God given right to keep and bear arms.

Here is my proposal. Ban all weapons except the RPG (if your package needs to be LARGER, then small tactical nuclear devices would also do). The RPG has all the fire power anyone would need to defend oneself or to hunt BIG game and in the case of a tyrannical government, and perhaps adequate firepower to do what my ancestors did ... remove the yoke of absolutist tyranny by force.

Originally Posted By: Stephen Stills
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

You can't reason with these folks
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306749 - 05/14/18 06:24 PM Re: A Thought [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16236
What I'm suggesting is we mobilize the populace... Then we don't NEED to reason with them.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#306751 - 05/14/18 08:28 PM Re: A Thought [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2141
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I forgot. The supremes have consistently stayed out of actual gun regulation. They have only weighed in when somebody wants to actually take the guns away from somebody. Another point is that existing gun regulations, in the State of Washington at least, are rarely exercised by the state. I have no idea why this is but I have been told that its true.

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#306752 - 05/14/18 11:29 PM Re: A Thought [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6526
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Then we don't NEED to reason with them

ahhh it is not enough to have the tyranny of the minority but we must also have the actually tyranny of the masses

In 1787 many people and delegates to the Constitutional Convention were unpersuaded on the efficacy of creating a new government, and yet in the next 10 months 3 writers argued the case for the creation of a new government. While their arguments and logic certainly persuaded some, there were always going to be a few who clung to the old ways.

In like manner the effort should probably be in educating the public and guarantees (a la BoR's) regarding responsible gun ownership. Already over 90% of Americans (the usual caveats on who was polled) support universal background checks.

Don't just out vote the opposition ... win them with reasonable, common sense arguments to your position
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#306753 - 05/15/18 12:32 AM Re: A Thought [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 356
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
"Don't just out vote the opposition ... win them with reasonable, common sense arguments to your position"

I know a few of the 'opposition' and they all are very reasonable people, two of them are my son(s)-in-law (both my daughters bleed blue, go figure). They all agree President Donald (My gut instinct is better than all the experts) Trump is bad, but not one of them will vote against him. Nor will they vote against the Republican congress. Nor do they support impeachment. With this mind set you can not reason and common sense is different to them, leaving out voting as the only solution.
_________________________
Vote 2018; give meaning and honor to those who made sure you have the right to vote.

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#306756 - 05/15/18 06:42 PM Re: A Thought [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2141
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
There are a LOT more voters on the left and middle than supporters of the Jackass. The only problem is that they all tend to not bother with voting and the right does. One would think they would learn the lesson but.................

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#306858 - 05/30/18 10:08 PM Re: A Thought [Re: jgw]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 353
'
There needs to be intensive propaganda branding the NRA as the most dangerous terrorist organization in the USA.
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

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