Current Topics
The United States v Donald Trump
by rporter314
04:10 AM
The End of the Independent Judiciary
by jgw
09:09 PM
Our modern Sinclair Lewis?
by jgw
08:52 PM
How the octopus got its smarts
by logtroll
08:30 PM
RoundTable for September 2018
by Ujest Shurly
06:58 PM
Code for no black people': New York bar's 'racist' dress code sparks online deba
by pondering_it_all
06:58 AM
Returning rationality to public policy
by NW Ponderer
09/20/18 04:03 PM
The Savage Breast: A Music Clip Thread
by Golem
09/20/18 12:58 AM
Yom Kippur and Kol Nidre
by Golem
09/18/18 06:57 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Golem
09/17/18 10:21 PM
Justice is coming
by jgw
09/17/18 09:37 PM
Flor-i-duh's Governor's Race
by Greger
09/17/18 06:19 PM
‘Unprecedented’: Natural gas expert says ‘over-pressurization’ may be to blame
by NW Ponderer
09/17/18 03:02 PM
George Conway rips Trump over tweet about Obama's '57 states' gaffe
by pdx rick
09/17/18 04:37 AM
Obama's Friday Speech
by pondering_it_all
09/14/18 06:51 AM
Woodward book breaks 93-year publishing record
by Greger
09/14/18 03:01 AM
Mike Rowe on Nike / Kaepernick and 9/11 hero Tom Burnett
by Greger
09/12/18 02:17 AM
The nuclear option
by Greger
09/12/18 01:22 AM
President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic
by chunkstyle
09/11/18 11:54 PM
stare into the lights my pretties
by Jeffery J. Haas
09/11/18 04:15 AM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16383 Topics
281979 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#306883 - 06/01/18 05:55 PM The Homeless
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I, and others, have made passing reference to "The Homeless". This is a problem that has nowhere to go but up. I have noticed that "The Homeless" is a banner under which there are parts and this is an important fact that most seem to be missing. "The Homeless" is made up of, parents with no jobs and belonging to any of the following. As far as I can tell we have people who have no place to live as they have minimum Social Security, no savings, and cannot afford any existing living space due to price increases. There are those that are not employed because they have no marketable skills. Drug addicts, Bums, etc. Then there are the insane.

The strange thing is that much of this can be dealt with. People can be re-trained, dealing with drugs can be done effectively, the elderly, on SS can be helped. The facts, however, do not deal, they punish.

Dealing with drug addiction was first dealt with by Portugal almost 20 years ago and much of the world has followed suit. Google "portugal Drugs" and learn what works and what does not.

Dealing with the broke elderly, and the unemployable means that we really need to build more low cost housing. This is tricky. They tried that with the 'projects' which failed but the why is also known (needed serious regulation and oversight) but ignored.

Gov seems to have decided that fixing the problem of the mentally screwed up has been turned over to our drug industry. The problem with that one is that the insane do not like their drugs so they don't take them. The majority of those doing mass murder turns out to be under the care of a shrink and has a prescription for drugs they do not take. I once suggested adding a bit of feel good and making the meds addicting to assure they take them. The AMA replied that would not work as, when they get a real cure, they would have all them addicts to deal with (really!) This is, again, fixable but the fixes are ignored.

So, every high school in America is trying to deal with kids that are homeless because of this and that. I say they are trying because they get no help, no nuthin. The effort to even vaguely help kids in desparate situations is, basically, to ignore the problem. If you have any kids in high school ask them if they know any homeless kids - I ask the question often and have yet to find a kind that doesn't know at least one.

I can keep going on this but I think I have actually said enough. Just thought I would weigh in on this one. OH, I didn't deal with the bums because they are always around, are usually predatory and many probably fall into other categories which are also not being dealt with.

I do know that the problem with "The Homeless" gets bigger every day and that any solutions I have heard of or seen are not even vaguely dealing with any of the root causes. In other words our current solution is to ignore and punish and little more.

Oh, there is also the little house solution in Seattle. This is where they get control of some gov land, a bunch of volunteers build 'little houses' and then they move homeless in. Apparently they are not sorting by category so these little house communities bring crime and needles with them. This one seems to me to be a feel good operating which is too small, poorly conceived and run, and not exactly welcomed by the communities they are sticking them in.

Top
#306884 - 06/01/18 06:45 PM Re: The Homeless [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
If you just want to house people, the Japanese have figured out a way to do that in a very efficient manner: Micro-hotels. Each room is tiny, but has everything a person needs to survive. "The Homeless" is really a lot of different problems, but that one can be solved easily and for much less than we spend now.

Other aspects of the problem are more difficult. Like drug addiction, and mental health issues. But it's pretty easy to get even crazy people and drug addicts housed. Probably the worst idea would be to couple those things. For example, saying you can't have a micro-hotel room if you use drugs. Instead, you need to say you get free detox or methadone treatment if you live here. Homeless people usually got there by making bad choices, but that's what liberty costs. Some people made bad choices and will continue to do so in the future. You can let them freeze to death on the streets or not.

Top
#306886 - 06/01/18 10:35 PM Re: The Homeless [Re: jgw]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3821
Loc: Eugene, OR
OK so the analytical part of me expresses itself. All species self regulate-- either due to external forces, disease, or lack of food. Living conditions also play into this.

Why should humans be exempt? Or are they? Should they?
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

Top
#307013 - 06/18/18 05:53 PM Re: The Homeless [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I might point out that HUD is proposing that rental rates for the poor be raised 3 times higher than they are now. The logic is that this will give, for instance, them elderly poor to go out and get a job. I remember going to Russia, several years ago and noting that every street had old people actually begging for food. The current jackass administration is working very hard to duplicate that one.

Top
#307018 - 06/18/18 08:53 PM Re: The Homeless [Re: jgw]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 353
'
The goal of the billionaire Oligarchs who have taken over the USA is to return to the Good Old Days of Herbert Hoover.

---with gerrymandering and vote rigging to prevent a democratic backlash, of course.
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

Top
#307020 - 06/19/18 12:39 AM Re: The Homeless [Re: matthew]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14195
Loc: Florida
Quote:
...the Good Old Days of Herbert Hoover.


And those "tiny houses" soon begin to resemble the Hooverville shanties.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#307022 - 06/19/18 08:22 PM Re: The Homeless [Re: Greger]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 353
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
...the Good Old Days of Herbert Hoover.


And those "tiny houses" soon begin to resemble the Hooverville shanties.

Good point! --- Bow
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

Top
#307023 - 06/19/18 11:23 PM Re: The Homeless [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
Well, not really. They have electricity, heat, running water, sewage, etc. Pretty much all the amenities of a modest American home, but with a lot less wasted space. Consider to that they are far superior to a cardboard box behind the supermarket, and many Americans spend large sums so they can have vacations living in a camper shell that is even smaller than a tiny house.

In light of the real estate and rental crunch, a tiny home or two in the backyard might be just the thing for young adult children who can't afford to move out.

I wonder if anybody is renting them out through AirBnB?

Top
#307024 - 06/20/18 03:24 AM Re: The Homeless [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14195
Loc: Florida
Not many homeless folks have access to all those amenities and there are "Hoovervilles" filled with tents, cardboard boxes and plenty of squalor all over the USA.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#307025 - 06/20/18 04:33 AM Re: The Homeless [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13267
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all

In light of the real estate and rental crunch, a tiny home or two in the backyard might be just the thing for young adult children who can't afford to move out.


Indeed, good call. Our daughter will most likely make a move some time in the next year or so, I would be guessing. She's been saving her money and working her tail off.

Our son's health issues and disabilities, on the other hand, are another matter. Once she moves, he's going to move into her old room, which has its own bathroom and we're considering modeling a side entrance so that he can have as much privacy and coming and going as he desires, sort of an attached "apartment" situation.

He will still be totally welcome everywhere in the house, of course, but we want him to feel as though he has full autonomy over his living situation.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

Top
#307026 - 06/20/18 09:13 AM Re: The Homeless [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
a side entrance

Not hard at all, especially if there is no electric wiring or plumbing in the wall where the door will go. Then it's just a few minutes with a saws-all, framing in a new door header, and screwing in a door with frame from Home Depot. Those complete door sets they have are super-easy.

Top
#307030 - 06/20/18 05:47 PM Re: The Homeless [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
again, whatever is decided about the housing thing they must, first, define 'homeless'. Does that include the insane in the same fix? How about the drug addicts - do they too get included in the same fix? Then there are the just plain bums. They are not mentally ill, they are not drug addicts, they have the capacity to work but don't, etc. Do we just ignore who they are and what they can, and cannot do, behavior, etc. and throw them all into the same housing? There is also the problem with security. We have already tried to do it without security and allowing everybody in. The results were the 'projects' where gangs rule supreme and the law abiding fear for their lives.

Anyway, to beat the proverbial dead horse. We need to better take care of our mentally ill instead of throwing them on the street or putting them in prison (the new institutions for the mentally ill). This remains a problem with no known solution, except for the street or prison. The claim, by the drug companies to be the solution is just plain wrong.

Then there are the drug addicts. This is a problem that has been solved in Europe, for the most part, led by the nation of Portugal. The solution is, basically, that drugs are a health problem. Unless we can understand that and act on it we are going to be forever doomed in this regard.

There is also the security problem. We are going to have to come together and understand that just throwing a bunch of people with problems and no place to put their head into the same place, on their own, and wishing them good luck is REALLY not a solution!

I firmly believe that one of the things that needs to be addressed before any of the rest can be is to stop the insanity of a for profit healthcare system. Hell, we are the only industrialized nation on the earth that fully embraces for-profit-healthcare and our life expectancy is actually dropping. Even though it continues to fail, our duly elected continue to embrace that failure as one of the shining lights of our nation. Apparently, and obviously, we just don't seem to be able to grasp the concepts of reality, facts and self interest.

Given our ongoing 18 year old war with no end in sight I fear we are in deep, deep, sh*t and wish us all luck.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 35 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2