Current Topics
Round table NOVEMBER 2018
by pondering_it_all
RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive!
by pondering_it_all
Election Day
by pondering_it_all
03:44 AM
CNN's lawsuit over White House ban of Jim Acosta
by rporter314
02:33 PM
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by chunkstyle
11/14/18 04:19 PM
Our Embarrasment of a White House
by NW Ponderer
11/13/18 09:28 AM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2018
by pondering_it_all
11/12/18 06:28 AM
the economy
by pondering_it_all
11/11/18 04:25 AM
Happy Birthday, United States Marine Corps
by Greger
11/10/18 08:45 PM
What Left?
by Greger
11/09/18 02:42 AM
Sleazy Slimeball or Slimy Sleazebag?
by NW Ponderer
11/08/18 06:25 PM
The rising tides are upon us
by pondering_it_all
11/08/18 01:15 AM
People who remember every second of their life - Total recall | 60 Minutes Austr
by Jeffery J. Haas
11/04/18 10:42 PM
Frontline: Facebook Dilemma
by Jeffery J. Haas
11/04/18 10:27 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Golem
11/04/18 09:22 PM
Roundtable for October 2018
by logtroll
10/30/18 11:06 PM
An Open Letter to My Teenage Son (Vietnam War era artifact)
by Jeffery J. Haas
10/29/18 05:02 AM
Media and Trump
by Jeffery J. Haas
10/28/18 08:09 PM
Debt Crises
by jgw
10/28/18 07:48 PM
The chosen one?
by Jeffery J. Haas
10/27/18 12:40 AM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16415 Topics
282777 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#307041 - 06/21/18 06:18 PM ICE - the new gestapo
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have been watching tv following the immigration thing and it just keeps on getting better and better (or a LOT worse). The jackass just signed something to keep families together. However, it also seems that this has nothing to do with the thousands of children taken and their repatriation with their parents. I have previously noted some of what ICE has done. Little things, like literally interrogating grade school children that 'look' hispanic, stopping and searching all busses, road blocks on every road in a community, etc. Oh, they have also been mixing up those of Spanish heritage with native Americans. All this has been interesting but they seem to now be moving in a much bigger area of questionable exertise.

It seems that when they ripped the children away from their parents there was no paperwork. This, in turn, seems to mean that gov has absolutely no idea who belongs to who or even who the children are. They have no plan to give the children back to the parents because they have no idea who anybody is!

Now, apparently, the new plan is to setup areas wherein all parents and children will be held together. In the good old days of the Nazi Gestapo these 'areas' were called "concentration camps" and, apparently, they are now planning something similar to keep all these lawless furners under control whilst the gov prosecutors get them convicted of misdemeanors. They are actually now talking about keeping said criminals in these 'areas' for literally years! Under normal circumstances, incidentally, a 'misdemeanor' is considered a minor crime usually dealt with by a small fine of some sort (you can look it up).

The other night I watched a previous head of border security, Gil Kerlikowske, talking about the current stuff. He said that one of his main concerns was the effects on the current members of ICE. The current reports are indicating his concerns are not out of line as these members of ICE are having no problem at all ripping nursing children from the breasts of their mothers, housing children in cages, etc. I suspect the concern has become reality and ICE members are rapidly turning into a gestapo in the classic sense. In other words, heartless, uncaring, robots doing the wishes of their jackass leader.

So, to sum it up. We have the members of ICE willing to do whatever at the bidding of their leader. There are actually plans to house entire families in guarded compounds once known as concentration camps run by ICE. The only thing that seems to be missing is that the Nazis were very careful to note, record, and organize so that they knew, exactly who everybody was and who they were. In the current instance, the paperwork seems to be missing and nobody actually has a clue as to how to re-integrate the families ripped apart.

As an aside it also seems that all prisoners, and children, are stripped of all belongings. Jewelry, food, religious artifacts (rosaries, crosses, etc), and toys. Said items are, apparently, thrown into the garbage. Basically ICE is taking whatever the refugees have and throwing it away. I guess this one comes under the heading of working hard to prove they can be jerks and a**holes.

Up here, where I live, we have an ICE encampment, complete with rolls of razor wire encompassing their holding area where, as far as I know (I could be wrong), there has yet to be any occupants (after at least 2 years) but I am equally sure they have plans.

Top
#307042 - 06/21/18 06:45 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13338
Loc: Whittier, California
In a few short years we'll see American officials touring these sites and apologists remarking how "they had no idea it had become this craven and horrible". Sound familiar?
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#307043 - 06/22/18 12:39 AM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7997
Loc: North San Diego County
An ICE concentration camp near Port Angeles? Must be for all those Canadians sneaking across the border: In other words, no occupants because no immigrants. Or maybe they built it to house Americans trying to sneak out...

Top
#307051 - 06/22/18 03:00 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
So, a women arrives illegally in the United States. She has children with her. Are they her children? Can she prove that they are? She get arrested for, you know, breaking the law and her children are supposed to go where? If it were up to me, I would deliver them to the Mexican authorities in the closest Mexican border town and tell them it is up to them to care for them. You see, this whole situation is avoidable, the criminal alien who got busted didn't have to cross the border. She know what was going to happen if she were caught.

I may be a heartless conservative, but at least I use a little logic. Why the hell should we allow these people into the United States, never mind take care of their children. Why listen to their complaints when the US did noting wrong?

I tell you a big wall with machine guns, a moat with alligators, a mine field on the other side of the moat. Then, if that doesn't work, the US annexes the area across the Rio Grande, a mile or so would do the job.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

Top
#307052 - 06/22/18 04:40 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7997
Loc: North San Diego County
But they are just committing a misdemeanor when they cross the border other than at a Port Of Entry, and the POEs have huge lines that admit about 15 people a day. Considering the number of people seeking asylum, that's just like saying "Use the legal process." but the legal process is not accepting anybody. The waiting time might be years, and refugees waiting in line for even a few days will probably have dead kids.

Most of them are not even from Mexico, so telling Mexico to "take care of them" doesn't really make any sense. When we deport them, we don't just dump them in Mexico. Nobody else gets imprisoned for a misdemeanor violation. That's all Steven Miller's idea that sounds good (to Trumpians) but has some very expensive and horrible humanitarian crisis consequences. There are all sorts of other ways of dealing with this. This one is just going to do the worst possible damage to Republicans in November and might get Trump an igNobel prize.

Looking at the bigger picture, why do we even want to keep motivated immigrants out? We've always let them in and they built the US. Experts have been worried about our low birth rate and telling us that our economy is going to collapse with fewer workers. Immigrants are actually good news in this regard. Who else is going to work the farms, take care of us in old age, pay into social security, etc.? I think the main motivation is racism, because of Trump's remarks about getting more immigrants from Norway and shithole countries.

In the short term, why not just put ankle monitors on every adult, and turn them loose. Then you don't have to devote huge amounts of money to imprison both adults and kids.

Top
#307053 - 06/22/18 07:16 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The other night they showed a bunch of folks who had been waiting, for 2 weeks to be able to present their case for asylum. Then there is the guy they exported. The problem is that they also took his son when they arrested him and he doesn't know where his son is now and nobody is telling him. I think they sent him back to some latin American country. Oh, Stephen Miller, the son, or grandson, of a survivor of a nzi concentration camp.

The reason they keep on coming is because we don't have the workers to do the jobs that need to be done so they can easily find work. There is an argument that goes something like; "New Orleans" would never have been rebuilt if it had not been for the workers from Mexico who were willing to live under bridges whilst rebuilding New Orleans." I suspect that is probably correct. Its also been said that we have, basically, exported our vegetable industry south of the border because farmers are no longer able to get help in the fields.

A link:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-5-million-us-jobs-depend-on-mexico-2017-01-27
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccart...c/#53b99650538e

I think the Republican economic collapse is getting closer and closer as the jackass continues on his quest to wreck the economy.

The Jackass administration remains a constant source of entertainment and/or horror (choose one)


Edited by jgw (06/22/18 08:07 PM)

Top
#307055 - 06/22/18 08:05 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13338
Loc: Whittier, California
Where do we go from here?
Thirty percent of the population will not believe literally ANYTHING they see that is negative or uncomfortable about Donald Trump.
They've written off every major media outlet as fake news and only trust information from Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Brietbart or InfoWars.
There is no point in even reasoning with them; it's as if they've joined a CULT.
What does a society do with that many citizens who choose to live in an alternate reality?
How do you govern a country that seems to have decided that facts are the work of the devil?
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#307058 - 06/22/18 08:30 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Where do we go from here?
Thirty percent of the population will not believe literally ANYTHING they see that is negative or uncomfortable about Donald Trump.
They've written off every major media outlet as fake news and only trust information from Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Brietbart or InfoWars.
There is no point in even reasoning with them; it's as if they've joined a CULT.
What does a society do with that many citizens who choose to live in an alternate reality?
How do you govern a country that seems to have decided that facts are the work of the devil?


You see, this is the sycophant whose opinion is fed to him every day.

They are not our children.
The policy of separating children has been going on for years.
We don't know whose kids they are.
Most of these people will become a drain on society, especially in the short term.

Yet, you rail against the President with generalities that aren't even related to the topic.

Mindless liberal gibberish.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

Top
#307059 - 06/22/18 09:03 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: Ma_Republican]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13338
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican

The policy of separating children has been going on for years.
We don't know whose kids they are.


Don't quote debunked and straw man comparisons of two unlike things.
The way that we deal with illegal immigrants hopping the border, particularly if they have a criminal record, is several orders of magnitude different from the way we have dealt with refugees seeking asylum from Central America.

Mexico is not on any list for asylum, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala are.

And yesterday's EO is actually a backdoor means of criminalizing asylum seeking altogether.

So stop lying.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#307060 - 06/22/18 09:45 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14365
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I tell you a big wall with machine guns, a moat with alligators, a mine field on the other side of the moat. Then, if that doesn't work, the US annexes the area across the Rio Grande, a mile or so would do the job.


What "job" is it you're trying to do? What exactly is the logic behind spending all these law enforcement resources to keep people out or jail them indefinitely for a simple misdemeanor? Most of them are ready, willing, and able to be contributors to society.

It pretty much boggles the imagination that Republican hatred for people of color runs so deep.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#307062 - 06/22/18 11:37 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Greger
It pretty much boggles the imagination that Republican hatred for people of color runs so deep.
Yet they are adamantly not racists! Could it be a miracle...?
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#307077 - 06/23/18 11:26 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 353
'
Perhaps the USA is not (completely) like Nazi Germany.

The public reaction against the barbaric, malevolent separating of children from their parents could not have occurred in Nazi Germany.

Clearly, many Americans have not yet been brainwashed into becoming dupes of the fascistic power structure of the USA.

However, the proportion of Americans supporting evil is still disturbingly high.
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

It is far easier to deceive folks than to convince them they are deceived

Top
#307079 - 06/24/18 12:56 AM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7997
Loc: North San Diego County
It almost makes me think we really do need the church, to explain to these idiots what is right and what is wrong every Sunday.

Top
#307082 - 06/24/18 05:17 AM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13338
Loc: Whittier, California
Beto O'Rourke, the top challenger to Ted Cruz' seat, paid a visit to Tornillo today.

FACEBOOK VIDEO
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#307084 - 06/24/18 07:09 AM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: Ma_Republican]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16301
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican


I may be a heartless conservative, but at least I use a little logic.
...
Tim
You left out an adjective. "Very" - as in, "very little logic." You see, Tim, there are things like "Laws" and "standards" and "basic humanity" that are supposed to apply in these situations. ICE is out of control because this administration doesn't believe in the rule of law and is inherently racist. I can provide a lengthy critique of the numerous violations of national and international law that these policies represent, but I know that will avail nothing.

What you probably don't realize, though, is that DHS believes that YOU are within their jurisdiction. Yep, checkpoints in Boston. Better carry your papers everywhere. BTW, your driver's license doesn't count (although mine does, as it is "enhanced"). You could be detained for weeks while they "process" you, and even deported. Access to a lawyer? HAH! Not in ICE-land. You don't even have to be brown, although that is "reasonable suspicion" to the Border Patrol. Good luck!

Top
#307085 - 06/24/18 01:01 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16301
It is an exceedingly sad state of affairs when a U.S. official - the top law enforcement official, no less - resorts to quoting the Bible to justify a policy (Remember the First Amendment, Mr. Sessions? Apparently not), then defends that policy by literally claiming it's "not as bad as the Nazis'." When Nazi Germany's extermination program is the "comparable" for a policy, you know we're in bad trouble.

Yes, but our concentration camps are not as bad as theirs because we don't do the killing! Instead we ship them to some "hell hole" to let vicious gangs do it for us. But at least our hands are clean! Multiple news agencies are legitimately comparing ICE and Border Patrol tactics to Gestapo practices - midnight raids of homes, round ups at businesses, bus searches, checkpoints in major cities - But, but, but "we're not as bad as that!" This is Amerika. These policies only affect brown people!

If you are not outraged at this point, and legitimately scared, you're not paying attention.

Top
#307086 - 06/24/18 05:01 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
It is an exceedingly sad state of affairs when a U.S. official - the top law enforcement official, no less - resorts to quoting the Bible to justify a policy

I bet there is something Jefferson Beauregard could quote from Sharia Law to bolster his ugly bias, too. Why just rely on Christian Law? Belt and suspenders, I always say...
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#307091 - 06/24/18 11:37 PM Re: ICE - the new gestapo [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13338
Loc: Whittier, California
Trump has now also decided that rule of law and due process need not apply either. The American people who worship Trump do so to the point where he absolutely can DO NO WRONG?
Yeah, that's a cult alright. They are Branch Davidians.

And I'm currently wondering exactly what it is that separates Donald Trump from David Koresh, besides money.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Who's Online
1 registered (NW Ponderer), 54 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2