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#307393 - 07/12/18 05:03 PM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Yeah Gregor,
We got the big mouths up here too. What do you expect. They have a sh!t talkers sh!t talker as president now. They got the dance floor and feel good about letting everyone know. Throwing lots of elbow.

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#307394 - 07/12/18 05:39 PM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965

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#307411 - 07/13/18 06:44 PM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14195
Loc: Florida
Quote:
It’s about money.


You say this like it's a new thing...? When in the entire history of man has politics been about anything but money?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307414 - 07/13/18 08:04 PM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
No one said its a new thing. Just a reminder of how politics is a battle of resources. The rich are winning it in spades. Clinton pitched in as much as anyone. The photo demonstrates the lack of day light between these people on that issue.
Always good to remind ourselves of that.

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#307433 - 07/14/18 05:01 PM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16203
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
On the local level we don't have many. ....
I'm no longer voting because they have a D next to their name.
See, you are the problem, chunk! Greger is correct. Yes, I think that we need to change the party, but if, in the general election, you are not voting for the Democratic candidate, you are part of the problem.

As I pointed out earlier (a point not refuted), neither leftists nor centrists can win by themselves. It just can't happen. Kvetch all you want to, it won't change that reality. Yes, Connor Lamb, Joe Manchin and Doug Jones are not my idea of "good" Democratic candidates, but they're Democrats. They may not go along all of the time, but certainly more than any Republican. We need as many seats as we can get, wherever we can get them. We need enough seats to take control. Then we can control the agenda. Then we can take the party/country back from the right. Until we do that, is all academic.

Leftists can win many places, but not everywhere. Until they do, you need to vote "D" every time. Even if the candidate is not ideal. Republicans do that. Trump is the result.

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#307434 - 07/14/18 05:13 PM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16203
Charts (not pie), from Pew. And a good discussion of the "factions" of the Democratic party from Wikipedia.

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#307438 - 07/14/18 09:56 PM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7885
Loc: North San Diego County
Some people would rather Fascists win than mainstream Democrats, because they think the inevitable disaster of a Fascist America will swing the other way and deliver a Socialist America. That won't really work if the Fascists essentially make it illegal to vote for anyone but them. Republicans are doing their best to make that so.

It's predicated on a system where Parties respect laws and normal order. Problem is, that only the Democratic Party does. Republicans have gone to the dark side in their quest for power, and have strapped the pendulum of American politics to their side of the clock. It's been a gradual progression of Gingrich, Hasturd, McConnell. Each with their progressively more criminal behaviors. It's the huge communist conspiracy that the right has feared for the last 60 years. The Manchurian candidate is in the White House, the Supreme Court is captured by a criminal act, and all the voter suppression and gerrymandering has fixed the results of elections.

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#307440 - 07/15/18 01:07 AM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Some people would rather Fascists win than mainstream Democrats, because they think the inevitable disaster of a Fascist America will swing the other way and deliver a Socialist America. That won't really work if the Fascists essentially make it illegal to vote for anyone but them. Republicans are doing their best to make that so.

It's predicated on a system where Parties respect laws and normal order. Problem is, that only the Democratic Party does. Republicans have gone to the dark side in their quest for power, and have strapped the pendulum of American politics to their side of the clock. It's been a gradual progression of Gingrich, Hasturd, McConnell. Each with their progressively more criminal behaviors. It's the huge communist conspiracy that the right has feared for the last 60 years. The Manchurian candidate is in the White House, the Supreme Court is captured by a criminal act, and all the voter [url=supprehttps://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-attacks-media-labour-election-prime-ministerssion][url=supprehttps://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-attacks-media-labour-election-prime-ministerssion][url=supprehttps://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-attacks-media-labour-election-prime-ministerssion]supprehttps://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-attacks-media-labour-election-prime-ministerssion[/url][/url][/url] and gerrymandering has fixed the results of elections.


Have you ever considered not enabling this march towards fascism by not voting for neoliberal republicans that have a D next to their name, PIA?
No?
Well by all means, keep rowing to the right. The middle must be over there some where.

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#307445 - 07/15/18 04:22 AM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
On the local level we don't have many. ....
I'm no longer voting because they have a D next to their name.
See, you are the problem, chunk! Greger is correct. Yes, I think that we need to change the party, but if, in the general election, you are not voting for the Democratic candidate, you are part of the problem.

As I pointed out earlier (a point not refuted), neither leftists nor centrists can win by themselves. It just can't happen. Kvetch all you want to, it won't change that reality. Yes, Connor Lamb, Joe Manchin and Doug Jones are not my idea of "good" Democratic candidates, but they're Democrats. They may not go along all of the time, but certainly more than any Republican. We need as many seats as we can get, wherever we can get them. We need enough seats to take control. Then we can control the agenda. Then we can take the party/country back from the right. Until we do that, is all academic.

Leftists can win many places, but not everywhere. Until they do, you need to vote "D" every time. Even if the candidate is not ideal. Republicans do that. Trump is the result.


Well,...that about encapsulates the third way strategy of winning elections for the last 30 years. Vote for democrats (whatever that means these days) cuz those republicans are sure scary.
Your a big fan of empiracle evidence NWP. How's that 'lesser of two evils' worked out? How has that translated into electoral victories? Has it been a success? If not, why not? Otherwise, your advocating the same status quo that has lead to historic defeats and might lend credence to the idea that your the problem NWP.
Just sayin.
Punching left while going right and whistling to the bank.

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#307453 - 07/15/18 08:12 PM Re: Pie Chart Fight [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2097
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
It dawns on me that this talk of Left, Middle, Right may not be valid. Perhaps the political landscape is considerably more complex than that. I do, however, firmly believe that we really have two sides; the side of the Jackass, and the side that does not side with the Jackass. All the rest is actually not real pertinent.

The jackass is going to run on his record and its not a bad record to run on! Jobs are back, wages are almost going up, and he is responsible for it ALL! (we know that is simply not true but the optics tend to belay that one). Things are better, the economy is humming, everything is dandy and if we want that to continue the only choice is to vote for the jackass.

The other side has to figure out how to fight back. So far there have been individual candidates but the Democratic party doesn't seem, so far, to have come to the party. I consider the infighting of the opposition a complete waste of time and an ignoring of the problems we are either facing, or will face, due to the actions of the other side. The Dems have to sharpen their spears and do a little educating, amongst other things. We all gotta remember, we want a better country, we are against hate, racism, rape, pillaging, baloney. I think we get into trouble when we start talking about what a better country is but this is nit picking. We just gotta stop it and get on with fixing an obvious problem. If we are for public schools then we should support public schools. If we are for better government then we should also want a new Hoover commission to actually study our government and determine what is working what is not. We have been fighting a war in Afghanistan going on almost 19 years. We have spent more than two (2) trillion dollars which could have fixed ALL of our infrastructure and nobody even bothers to talk about that one. There are a lot of these 'little' things that nobody talks about. I also suspect most are low hanging fruit and that we are simply being out shouted by the other side. Hopefully somebody is going to figure it out. Hopefully the Dems will do better. My wife was doing cold calls locally and noticed there were no Hillary signs in the entire town. She asked for a sign to put up and was told the price would be 25.00 The Dems now have a LOT of Hillary signs and a loss due, at least in part, to that kind of lunacy.

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