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#307246 - 07/03/18 10:47 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16296
It takes years to establish a governmental organization. There are budgets to write, plans, programs, policies, hiring, training, etc. An institution can be destroyed in months. Fire all the competent people, undermine the policies, destroy morale, gut the budget. Trump's appointees have done that throughout the government. All of the important agencies have been undermined, and most of the others. I can't think of any that are unscathed. Some are in tatters. It may take decades to recover, if that is even possible. The longer the disastrous tax cuts remain in place, the longer the looting goes on, the longer any recovery will take.

The Great Depression lasted a decade. Expect the next to last as long, and we have fewer tools left to address it. We will have a hostile Supreme Court, which will stymie even State solutions. I'm as pessimistic as I have been in my life.

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#307247 - 07/04/18 12:18 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12006
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
The best part is that as government fails, the gop will claim validation of the idea that government is inherently flawed and should therefore be further defunded
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#307248 - 07/04/18 01:05 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7990
Loc: North San Diego County
One very important thing to keep in mind is that when you have an economic crash, you can punish the people and institutions that can be blamed. But killing those institutions might bring down other institutions, and others, and others. Resulting in exactly the opposite of what you need to do to recover. But we can all be satisfied that the guilty were punished, as we sit in our cold Hoover shacks and eat our canned beans.

Like AGI, the big reinsurance company: You bring them down and you could possibly crash EVERY INSURANCE COMPANY, and pension fund! They let Lehman Brothers fail and said: "Wait a minute, maybe this is not the way to recover." In England, Lloyds went belly up and the government of the UK stepped in. In the US, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac failed and the FHA stepped in to save what were essentially government agencies.

These were desperate times and the solution was not to crash every institution that was failing. We dodged a huge bullet.
Failed Institutions during the Great Recession

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#307256 - 07/04/18 06:16 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: Ardy]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Ardy
The best part is that as government fails, the gop will claim validation of the idea that government is inherently flawed and should therefore be further defunded

Ardy's baaaack!!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#307260 - 07/05/18 04:14 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1068
Matt Taibbi's comparison of the Pelosi plan

Stay Calm and Carry On

about nails it...

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#307431 - 07/14/18 03:23 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1068

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#307454 - 07/15/18 08:14 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13338
Loc: Whittier, California
And he is spot on, too.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#307459 - 07/15/18 10:17 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14364
Loc: Florida
Oy vie! Jesus Christ, yes. Who are they going to feed us next.

You know what I liked about Hillary? She was no surprise. We knew for 8 years that she was going to run and would likely win. That she would probably be 8 more years of Obamaesque governance. I was okay with that, not real excited but okay... It was certainly better than any of the yayhoos the Republicans would regurgitate into the election.

But then there was the dark horse candidate...Bernie! How could you not love Bernie? All our leftishmost dreams wrapped up in a single candidate not afraid to voice all our hopes and wishes and dreams out loud. And he drew HUGE crowds.

And another dark horse candidate on the other side...Donald!

Who began his campaign by proclaiming Mexicans to be rapists and murderers. To a racist conservative electorate who had just suffered for eight years under the rule of a LIBERAL BLACK MAN.
And he drew Huge crowds.

Welp, we all know who won that one.

Donald Trump is strutting around like some sort of Banana Republic Warlord and the Democratic Plan is to serve up some sort of milquetoast tabula rasa sort of candidate that doesn't please anyone a single iota to the right or left of center.

Maybe Hillary will run again?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#307510 - 07/17/18 09:05 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
There is a tv series called, I think, Our Cartoon President, and I think Stephen Colbert is responsible for it. Anyway, I watched it last night. They kinda split the subject to lambast between Trump and the Democratic 'Plan'. It used to be all about Trump but, now, its changed and it was, er, well, interesting?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comi...m=.d38ae5f00a76

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#307513 - 07/17/18 09:56 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1068
There's a new book out from political writer Thomas Frank called 'Rendezvous with Oblivion'. A collection of essays from the last few years that turned out to have significance to today's reality.
I think it's important to go back from time to time and see who called it early and why. Frank has been consistently calling it for awhile now and his latest book read was spot on.
I think his observation about boomer centrists is a correct one. They are never going back on third way thinking. It defined them and was a repudiation of their parents and the New Deal era associated with them. In some respects this Hillary/ Trump feud is an ongoing fight within Boomer ideology with the result that Third Way types can't truck populism leaving the door wide open to right wing populism and all it's possible outcomes.

Thomas Frank's shorter oblivion chat

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