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#307211 - 07/01/18 09:23 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I am not equating the left with the press. I meant exactly what I said, ie. "THEY would have reported", ie. the left/Democrats. If the left, for instance, was responsible for an economic downturn that costs billions to bail out of and thousands lose their jobs then the right/Republicans would be talking about that every 15 minutes 24 hours a day. The left/Democrats, on the other hand barely mention it. The right, I think, understand that the general electorate has a really bad memory and lives at the moment. So, they get something with traction they beat it to death. If the right/Republicans get something with traction it may last a week and sometimes even 2 and then it goes away. We all say "we all know about that why do they keep saying it?" The simple fact is that this is part of gaslighting/demonization/lying and it works. The 'fair' press too is at blame, they don't call them out on their lies with any vigor - they just ignore it. That is another reason why they have success. (to be fair media is actually calling them out more than previously)

They reason the jackass is getting such numbers (economic) is because of the groundwork laid by Obama (in spite of the Republicans fighting him each step of the way and not allowing any legislation after healthcare). The jackass has, literally, claimed he did it all and its rare anybody challenges that because he does it regularly and its become "just the way it is". There are occasional references to Obama but not a concerted effort to pound it into everybody's brain - the right/Republicans do not make that mistake.

I believe that we have much on our side, especially given what the right has been doing. They have actually reduced drinking water standards! They have seriously increased the debt so that the very rich can be richer and call it a tax cut. I can go on and on and so can you. The simple fact, however, is that most of it, if its not current, is never mentioned.

There is a reason, for instance, that in red states even the poor voted for the jackass. They are only exposed to the message from the right and, I think, that is because the left has simply abandoned. If I remember correctly the preachers of the right, the Lord's chosen, get to now preach politics from the pulpits. I can remember a time when they would have lost their tax exemptions for something like this. In other words the right reward the greedy and they get away with it. Again, thee and me can probably go on forever but ask the guy in the street about something that happened 2 months ago and its unlikely he would have a clue - unless it was something good for the right because they do not allow folks to forget!

One last. When was the last time you heard that the reason the Jackass can backout so much of what Obama did is because it was not legislated, it was done by decree (for which Obama caught it not only from the right but also the left). The reason Obama had to do it by decree is because the Republicans promised, on TV, that they would (and did) fight any legislation Obama tried to pass so he didn't have a choice. The real miracle of Obama was that he did fairly well in spite of the ban on any "Obama Legislation". This was, as far as I am concerned, yet another example of the Democrats not explaining, and exploiting, something.

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#307218 - 07/02/18 02:10 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1089
Lots to agree with here JGW.

I would also add that a good start for a comeback would be to have the democratic leadership stop putting their thumbs on the scale in the primaries and simply let the constituents decide who to run. Nothing ticks off your own party more than to have the DCCC parachute in a loser candidate that is right on the issues for that organization, not so much for the district. They overstep their role in campaigns and have not shown themselves to be successful at them by running self funding millionaires or those heavily connected to millionaires. How many capable creative and energized potential candidates are they shoving aside (as has been reported and seen first hand in my own backyard) opting instead for the well heeled and connected?

As Thomas Frank has asked and answered, whatever happened to the party of the people?


Edited by chunkstyle (07/02/18 02:12 PM)

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#307219 - 07/02/18 04:23 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 363
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Agreed chunkstyle, let the constituents select who will run.

Here in Michigan we have a some what interesting primary race, may get real interesting soon. For the Republicans the Lieutenant Governor running and he is claiming that he had a significant impact in the Larry Nassar crime and scandal. He has two of the victims saying that if he could impact the investigation and settlement imagine what he could do as Governor. Real gem there, politicizing a serial sex abuse crime.

On the Democratic side we have:
Abdul El-Sayed, Citizen by birth, an Egyptian American, Medical Doctor and Rhodes Scholar
Shri Thanedar, Citizen naturalized, a Hindu (Indian), PHd in Chemistry an author and a successful entrepreneur
Gretchen Whitmer, Citizen by birth, ex-minority Leader of the Michigan Senate, Lawyer and ex-prosecutor


Any one of the above could give Republicans, Conservatives, and Evangelicals apaplexy.

All three Democrats are Progressive, very progressive.

As for Thomas Frank's question. It is doing fine here in Michigan
_________________________
Vote 2020.

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#307220 - 07/02/18 05:07 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1089
"There is a reason, for instance, that in red states even the poor voted for the jackass."

Just a comment on the idea of poor working class whites and the constant yammering of journalist taking trump supporter safari's in rust belt states to 'have a conversation' or a 'listening tour'. I think it's rubbish and a peek at the income levels of the POTUS base have supported this view.

I posted a link to a shortened version of an energetic and decidedly left podcast for Gregor (a brother from another mother) about this idea of white working class trump voters. If you have time have a listen (to any of their podcasts for that matter. Good to stay in touch with this yutes and what there on about):




The full version of Trump support in the sunshine state


Edited by chunkstyle (07/02/18 05:07 PM)

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#307221 - 07/02/18 05:08 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1089
I'll have to read up on what's happening in Michigan Unjest. Good to hear you got some fresh blood in the race. Maybe some new ideas to boot?

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#307224 - 07/02/18 06:49 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
chunkstyle;
instead of "poor" how about "evangelical poor"? <G> The simple fact, however, is that not many of the poor even vote. Its been one of my constant whines, over the years. I hired a lot of the poor and they simply do not vote. Every time there was an election I would gather them together (for years) and preach the gospel which goes something like; "if you don't vote you WILL be f*cked. this being the case PLEASE vote - its in your own best interest." I never told them howto just todo. (there are, however, exceptions).

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#307226 - 07/02/18 08:05 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1089
Yeah, that would be a very big difference jgw.
As far as working poor coming out to vote, can you blame em? A viscous circle of being ignored by politicians and ignoring politics. It doesn't help when there are so many that turn out to be pretenders or predators in sheeps clothing after all. Confirming the skepticism of working class folks.
Remember Obama? The rock star of hope and change? Remember him bailing out the banks and making them whole while turning his back on working people is an example of a pretender creating disaffection and cynicism. I'll take hits for that comment but had he gone FDR on the bankers (as they thought he was going to do when they were summoned to the white house) it would have gone a long way to taking the fire out of the anger that was steadily growing in the country in the wake of the housing crises. He could have look to history and gone left, instead he went with the corporate board he surrounded himself with. In case you haven't heard here's what one member of his board who pushed for coddling the banks have been up to...

Obama's picked treasury secretary living the life

We gotta hold these jokers accountable. One way is to elect better candidates. Getting better candidates will mean organizing and getting involved.

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#307230 - 07/02/18 10:03 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I can blame them. They are ignored by politicians BECAUSE THEY DON'T VOTE! The poor, for the most part, keep their heads down, get screwed over regularly, and work very hard for very little. Most are not particularly well educated nor are they interested in such things as 'politics'. I have given a lot of thought to this one as I know a lot of poor people and I have tried to understand them over the years. I have flat out failed. I have watched them make one bad decision after another. When I was younger I used to ask them why. I not only didn't get an answer it seemed that it was a secret and the question just pissed them off. Over the years I had some minor success at helping a couple, getting them to keep their kids in school, get the teachers to backoff when they tried to drug the kids that acted out, etc. Some of their kids made it (military, college, etc) and I knew/know them too. Some are not poor anymore. I have asked them about their parents and why. They all have the same response, they are my folks and love them but they just don't understand. I gave up trying to understand.

You refer to working people. That does not exactly describe the poor. The poor work and they work their asses off but its all marginal, jobs, health, kids, the whole thing. I also think there are fewer and fewer of them as automation is taking their jobs and gov is screwing them over, and I am no longer even convinced they care or will care. Its VERY strange.

Now, Obama. He was a strange one but HE WAS NEVER REALLY POOR. I think one of the worst thing he did is establish a policy that if you had the bucks you could pay a huge fine and never see the inside of jail. As far as I can its all part and parcel of a strange belief that money was the solution. I think the worst of that was the bank that laundered money for the drug dealers, for 15 years, and we are talking about billions. They actually confessed everything. The result was a huge fine and they all skipped. They also let banks who had setup large counterfeit operation to 'prove' they owned what they were foreclosing (they also got to pay large fines and skip the jail part) I think he either really admired the moneyed or he thought if he could make them his pals they would get the Republicans to let him legislate. In either case it didn't work and he is saddled with exactly what you said - guilty or not. I also think he tried but he had a short window and a lot of resistance from his own party as well as the Republicans. I also know that there are actually books written on the banking thing.

The simple fact is that Obama did all he could when he owned the congress. He got the health thing through, a seriously flawed, and written bill, 25% of which was left blank for the bureaucracy to fill in. I watch the markup on that one. I think 50% was actually written by the Republicans. He got almost a trillion to fix things and he spent most of it bailing out the states instead of focusing on infrastructure. He also got a bill actually passed (legislated) to fix the banking system. That's really about it and he had to fight his own as much as the other side to get that much done. I also remember, during the financial fixes that there were actually Dem legislators running stock operations once they learned that their pronouncements cause movement.

The jackass administration has gone after all these things with a vengeance. They are not as easy to destroy as stuff passed with the pen. That being said, they continue to take down a piece here, and there, then refuse to pay for to round it out. The taking off of much to save the "small banks", a damned lie, will just bring about the financial downturn a little faster but its coming!

I have no idea who or what is going to happen or how to get the mess straightened out. I used to believe that we would get the guy on the white horse but, instead, we got the jackass. I think our system is just too corrupt to survive (I read the reports on the Iran thing and that was just for starters). I am also not exactly young and my prayer is that I don't have to witness what happens as its not gonna be pretty. My hope (I am a wishful thinker on a professional level) is that one of these people coming up, and under 30 (or close) can rise up and lead. My thought is that is not going to happen as most of the young are also big believers in the "my way or the hiway" and they gotta learn to give a little.

the first thing, however, is to understand that there are only two sides (forget all the rest). People have to decide which side they are on and vote. I do believe there are more of us than them.

I wish us all good luck............. (if we are going to carry on like this it might be wise to move to a private conversation)

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#307234 - 07/03/18 05:12 AM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13350
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: jgw

I wish us all good luck............. (if we are going to carry on like this it might be wise to move to a private conversation)


Why?
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#307243 - 07/03/18 07:07 PM Re: The Democratic Plan [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
have no idea - sometimes, anyway - again - have no idea

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