Current Topics
The War On Drugs
by Greger
07/21/18 07:24 PM
The Democratic Plan
by NW Ponderer
07/21/18 07:07 PM
Returning rationality to public policy
by NW Ponderer
07/21/18 06:35 PM
Helsinki
by jgw
07/21/18 06:05 PM
Weep afresh, America
by Greger
07/21/18 02:12 AM
Mueller indictments
by jgw
07/20/18 09:44 PM
TrumpTrade
by jgw
07/20/18 09:08 PM
'Boy or girl?' Parents raising 'theybies' let kids decide
by pondering_it_all
07/20/18 06:25 AM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2018
by Golem
07/19/18 07:25 PM
Round Table For July 2018
by chunkstyle
07/18/18 03:32 PM
Yes, Normal Republican Elites Are a Threat to Democracy
by Greger
07/17/18 02:15 AM
Pie Chart Fight
by chunkstyle
07/16/18 04:39 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by logtroll
07/16/18 12:34 AM
The Trump Precedency: the 25th Amendment
by pondering_it_all
07/14/18 10:11 PM
The End of the Independent Judiciary
by chunkstyle
07/13/18 08:40 PM
FBI Investigator
by Ujest Shurly
07/13/18 08:25 PM
Charles Oakley arrested for allegedly cheating at casino
by pondering_it_all
07/12/18 10:49 PM
The immigration thing
by NW Ponderer
07/12/18 07:05 PM
Being Uncivil to Barbarians
by Greger
07/12/18 04:48 PM
How to tell a real Trump supporter from a Russian troll
by Greger
07/12/18 04:36 PM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16316 Topics
280977 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#307265 - 07/05/18 09:05 PM privatization
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2033
Loc: Port Angeles, WA

One of the main goals, of the far right, is to turn all government physical assets into for profit corporate entities, ie. 'privatize'. This includes stuff like national parks, our hiway system, all dams, public schools, you know, ALL assets! The current Trump administration has either started on these or has plans. The fix for our infrastructure, for instance, is to, basically give our entire highway system to private industry to fix. Once fixed they basically own it and can charge what they want for use. There hasn't been a lot, on TV, about this one. Here are a couple of links for you to get started.
https://www.politico.com/news/trump-infrastructure-plan-details
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/11/news/economy/trump-infrastructure-plan-details/index.html#

When it comes to education he has DeVos doing her level best to destroy public education in favor of a for profit educational system. For this one just google "privatization of public schools". This is, incidentally, ongoing. They are working, very hard, to get it done in Michigan right now.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answ...m=.fa461381f247
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_DeVos

They are also going after the VA healthcare system. This has been going on for over a year now and has resulted in a VA that is in constant turmoil with constantly changing rules and regulations and cutbacks, etc. You can google "VA privatization" to learn about this one. The strange thing is that the administration appointments to the VA are strenuously denying that is their goal but their actions, I think, speak louder than their words. Veteran's organizations are flat out against privatization, incidentally.
https://healthpayerintelligence.com/news/president-trump-signs-bill-to-expand-privatization-of-va-healthcarehttps://healthpayerintelligence.com/news/president-trump-signs-bill-to-expand-privatization-of-va-healthcare
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/14/privatizing-the-va/

I find it interesting that this administration has, with the so called "tax cut" given the top 5% a 1 trillion dollar tax break. This is on top of the corporate tax breaks. They are paying for this by cutting medicare by 100 billion annually for 10 years. They are doing the same to medicaid but are cutting 1 trillion over 10 years from that one. This is, incidentally, privatization of our entire health care system. All this stuff is public and you can research it yourself. Medicare, at the current rate cut will be broke in less than 8 years (no more medicare!)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/2018/02/13/why-gop-is-slashing-medicare/#5f5e02b1548f
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...ctions-medicar/

As far as I can tell the current administration has added something like 1.2 TRILLION dollars to our debt and is waging a trade war with, literally, the entire rest of the world. The only question about yet another Republican economic downturn is not whether its going to come but when its going to come. The last Bush administration came very close to taking it all down, now we have the jackass who is working, very hard, to do the same thing.

Top
#307268 - 07/05/18 09:42 PM Re: privatization [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16059
I actually have experience with this issue! When I was on active duty in the Army, we had group of 4 Soldiers (3 senior NCOs and one officer) running a training program. When it was transferred to DA civilians it took 12 people to do the same job. When it was "contracted out," the team ballooned to 28 and extensive delays and failures occurred (like the loss of ammunition and weapons). The cost also more than tripled.

Rarely, if ever, do public-private partnerships benefit the public. Now, in some circumstances, governments can avoid capital costs for, as an example, purchase of expensive equipment (say, road graders), or for specialized expertise. For short-term, discrete projects, contracting can make sense. Similarly, bulk purchase contracts can save money. But I've seen more government waste in contracting than any other government process. To begin with, "profit" has to be added to almost every contract, even when it is not "earned".

Top
#307269 - 07/05/18 11:10 PM Re: privatization [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14038
Loc: Florida
Republican policy is, by and large, designed to make the rich richer.
It serves no other purpose.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#307272 - 07/06/18 12:26 AM Re: privatization [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7692
Loc: North San Diego County
No, there is another purpose: They want to privatize profit AND still make risk and costs public.

Top
#307275 - 07/06/18 02:05 AM Re: privatization [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14038
Loc: Florida
True, there are nuances involved in how the upward flow of money is handled but getting wealth into the hands of the wealthy and keeping it there is the primary goal.

Democrats are more or less the same but they let poor folks temporarily hold some of the money.
I think Will Rogers said if you give a poor man $10 in the morning that by 5 o'clock a rich man would have it.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#307282 - 07/06/18 08:19 AM Re: privatization [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7692
Loc: North San Diego County
True, but the poor man will have $10 worth of stuff, like food. That's actually true, and says a lot about the way economic stimulus works. If you give the money directly to the rich guy, it sits in his wallet and soon makes its way to his Swiss bank account.

If you give it to the poor guy, he buys $10 worth of food to feed his kids. The grocer spends it on a haircut. The barber buys beer. Then the liquor store owner pays a hooker "for services". Then her pimp...
On and on around it goes. On average I think six times before it gets to the bank.

Top
#307301 - 07/07/18 07:37 PM Re: privatization [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2033
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
In the state of Washington we had a bridge across Hood Canal. It needed work so they hired a contractor to do the job then put a charge on the bridge until the contractor had been paid off (with interest). When the bridge was paid for the state didn't remove the charge - until they got sued, and lost. We have the same thing going on, right now, on the Narrows Bridge. As far as I know the same deal holds, I have no idea if its paid off yet or not. I do know that they keep raising the rates to use the bridge although it only on one way. I suspect the state continues to pay the contractor for their work and equally suspect that the raises are for the coffers of the state. OH, the reason its only charge for one way is because the bridge was expanded, by 4 lanes, all of which are used to go one way.

It will be interesting to see what happens when somebody figures out the bridge is paid for and the state has turned the bridge into a cash cow.

Top
#307303 - 07/08/18 12:58 AM Re: privatization [Re: jgw]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14038
Loc: Florida
Quote:
the state has turned the bridge into a cash cow.

If that's the case the road dept is probably using the money to fix other bridges without adding a toll for every pothole they fill.

Or do you imagine they are just throwing wild parties with their ill gotten gains?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#307307 - 07/08/18 03:50 PM Re: privatization [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16059
Quote:
Toll rate setting and process
The Washington State Transportation Commission (WSTC) works with WSDOT and the public to establish toll rates for all highways and bridges in Washington state. The WSTC begins each toll setting process with the advice of the Governor’s appointed Tacoma Narrows Bridge Citizen Advisory Committee . The WSTC reviews traffic and revenue each year to determine whether new toll rates are needed to cover operational costs and debt payments. This review process starts in the fall and, if new rates are adopted, they are in effect the following July. Learn more about toll rate setting process .
Tacoma Narrows Bridge There are links to the Statutes and Policies. There are two current openings on the Citizen Advisory Committee, but you have to live in the area to apply. (BTW, I do...)

This process, by the way, is the most citizen-oriented one I've seen in public works. Financing of the bridge (like other transportation projects) was done through bonds. I mention this, mostly because I see this as a bit different than "contracting out" operations, especially central government functions, like policing.

Top
#307309 - 07/08/18 05:02 PM Re: privatization [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2033
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Ponderer;
You are right about what you say and didn't know this stuff. My point, however, is that we had to sue the state to get the charges off after they had paid off the debt. Look like, in this case, the Tacoma Narrows bridge has been setup differently. We will, I guess, see.

I should also admit that I had not even figured out why the charges were only for one way until I wrote this topic and it suddenly dawned on me. I suspect my mind continues to slow down although I have been told that I am not a candidate for Alzheimer disease (had a day long memory test, at the VA, last year and the brain guy at American Lake told me this. He actually told me that my memory was better than most at my age. This has led me to be flat out against any presidential candidates after they turn 70, its just too freaking old (I am past my 70's but remember when it started). I do not want, for instance, Bernie to be running for president - just too damned old! (and so is the jackass!)

Top
#307312 - 07/08/18 06:42 PM Re: privatization [Re: jgw]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3818
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
It will be interesting to see what happens when somebody figures out the bridge is paid for and the state has turned the bridge into a cash cow.

That very thing happened with the Evergreen Point (520) bridge that crossed Lake Washington in days of yore. The bridge had been paid off by the early 1970’s but the state kept collecting tolls until some sharp eyed citizen spilled the beans in 1979.

I crossed that bridge on the last day of the toll in 1979 and was given an artificial flower by the toll booth gal as a token of their esteem. Lovely gesture. Also, if memory serves, some higher up was embezzling tolls along the way to fund his personal retirement account. As you know “they” have recently built a replacement bridge for the old 520 and have also fired up the tolls again to fund it.

During times of hard winds crossing the old 520 bridge was very fun indeed with water crashing over it, the pontoons it floated on swaying to and fro, and your car feeling as if the lug nuts had fallen off and your wheels were about to join them.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

Top
#307326 - 07/09/18 08:58 PM Re: privatization [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2033
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
You forgot the leaking pontoons being used on the new 520 bridge. My wife refuses to use it for fear of drowning <G>

Should mention, again, that Pondering pointed out that the Tacoma Narrows bridge has a built in guard against the state trying to turn that one into an income source.

I might also add that China, those evil ones, use infrastructure as a good way to re-energize their economy of it tries to turn down. They have found that valid infrastructure upgrades and new, tend to pay for themselves over time as well as boosting the economy and providing jobs. We simply do not get it. Our solution, to the economy, seems to be war (as well as trade war). Afghanistan is an 18 year old excellent example. There is no reason for it, it kills our own for no reason, there is no current description of any kind of victory, we bribe the opposition to allow us to restock over their roads, etc. Our arms manufacturers, however, must love that war.

Thank goodness we have that elected class devoted to the welfare of the nation over self service and keeping their jobs?

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 40 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2