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#307255 - 07/04/18 04:37 PM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17336
There are a couple of technical problems with drilling a shaft, not the least of which is figuring out where to drill it. Hitting a small target deep underground is extremely difficult. What if they miss? Months of effort can be lost. I suspect they'll start with air/communication shafts.

I'm a scuba diver. Let me clarify: I'm a recreational diver. I don't dive caves because they are extremely dangerous and scary as hell. The professional divers who reached the team had to dig out the tunnels to fit through. There is zero visibility, and currents. They had to leave guidelines behind to avoid getting lost. I have a hard time imagining an 11-year-old attempting it.

And yes, the cave was dry when they entered, and it was a month before monsoon season, so they weren't expecting rain. The caves flooded behind them. It is now monsoon season.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#307257 - 07/04/18 06:47 PM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10007
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Patriotism. I just got back from my little town's 4th of July parade - it's not much, fire trucks, baseball teams, a couple of churches, PFLAG, enviros, tractors, classic cars, etc. But the most notable thing in my observation was that practically nobody stood when the local military color guard went by. Make of it what you will.

On Saturdays, we get a program on the local public radio station called The Thomas Jefferson Hour with historian Clay Jenkinson playing TJ in present day interviews. It's very good. A line from the last show really struck me. Jefferson was talking about opening the White House to the public twice a year during his presidency, one day being the 4th. He said he didn't mingle freely with the crowd because of the importance of "preserving the dignity of the office". I thought, "Well, so much for that..."
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#307263 - 07/05/18 07:56 PM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17336
Embattled EPA head Pruitt resigns - the Hill. Small favors. Do you think he's hoping to avoid indictment? I say "small favors" because his deputy, Andrew Wheeler, may be as bad as, or worse than, Pruitt. Remember, he was, until narrowly approved on a party-line vote, a coal lobbyist. Who Is Andrew Wheeler? (And Why You Should Be Afraid of Him) - nrdc.
Quote:
his most recent job was as an energy lobbyist. His biggest clients included Murray Energy Corporation, which proudly bills itself as the largest coal mining company in America, and whose CEO, Robert E. Murray, vigorously fought the Obama administration’s attempts to reduce carbon emissions and strengthen environmental and public health laws. Shortly after Trump took office, Murray, an unabashed climate denier, presented Vice President Mike Pence with a ridiculously pro-coal “action plan” that called for doing away with the Clean Power Plan, withdrawing from the Paris climate agreement, eliminating federal tax credits for renewable energy, and—yes—halving the EPA’s workforce.

In his spare time, Wheeler serves as the vice president of the Washington Coal Club, a powerful yet little-known federation of more than 300 coal producers, lawmakers, business leaders, and policy experts who have dedicated themselves to preserving the uncertain future of our dirtiest fossil fuel. Wheeler clearly loves coal, but he’s also made time to lobby the U.S. Department of the Interior to open portions of the Bears Ears National Monument to uranium mining.

It gets worse...


Edited by NW Ponderer (07/05/18 08:03 PM)

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#307271 - 07/06/18 12:19 AM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9533
Loc: North San Diego County
Had to kill another rattler yesterday. Damned thing was 2 feet from my house. That's about 20 so far in the decade I have lived here. It's 20 to 0 so far, but I have paid for a lot of antivenon for my dogs.

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#307274 - 07/06/18 12:52 AM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9533
Loc: North San Diego County
Scott Pruitt is out. Resigned today. You know, when an administration has to fire so many of their top people, it doesn't so much reflect on those people as it does on the idiot who hired them. Trump is TERRIBLE at finding good competent people to hire!

I suppose a narcissist always has to hire people who are worse than him, just so he can exercise the "boss being disappointed in them" scenario. He must be running low on candidates who are worse knobs than him.

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#307276 - 07/06/18 02:08 AM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16502
Loc: Florida
Good, competent people won't work for him.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#307278 - 07/06/18 05:11 AM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17336
Sadly: Thai cave rescue: Former Navy diver dies while exiting flooded tunnels - CNN. Unfortunately it demonstrates both the risk rescuers are taking and the dangers the team still faces.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#307283 - 07/06/18 11:25 AM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: Greger]
Kaine Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Pennsylvania

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#307284 - 07/06/18 01:42 PM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: Greger]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 588
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Let it FLY!
_________________________
Vote 2020!

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#307286 - 07/06/18 04:56 PM Re: Round Table For July 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42509
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Sadly: Thai cave rescue: Former Navy diver dies while exiting flooded tunnels - CNN. Unfortunately it demonstrates both the risk rescuers are taking and the dangers the team still faces.


cry , Bow
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Contrarian, extraordinaire



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