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#307404 - 07/12/18 11:05 PM Re: The Trump Precedency: the 25th Amendment [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16538
Who are the "principal executives" that would have to decide whether Trump is competent are:
Quote:
the Vice President and the heads of 15 executive departments — the Secretaries of Agriculture, Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, as well as the Attorney General.


I'm not sure the majority of these individuals are themselves competent.

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#307405 - 07/13/18 12:01 AM Re: The Trump Precedency: the 25th Amendment [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8941
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Who are the "principal executives" that would have to decide whether Trump is competent are:
Quote:
the Vice President and the heads of 15 executive departments — the Secretaries of Agriculture, Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, as well as the Attorney General.


I'm not sure the majority of these individuals are themselves competent.

I am sure they are not...
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#307415 - 07/13/18 08:24 PM Re: The Trump Precedency: the 25th Amendment [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8228
Loc: North San Diego County
There was actually a bill in the House to specify a special Congressional committee that could also invoke the 25th amendment. The amendment itself says that Congress can do that.

They might have to pass it with veto-proof votes, but they could do it.

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#307421 - 07/14/18 02:36 AM Re: The Trump Precedency: the 25th Amendment [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8228
Loc: North San Diego County
What some people refuse to acknowledge, is that a conspiracy does not have to be secret to be a conspiracy. The instigator can suggest a crime in a public statement, and then somebody else commits the crime. That's all it takes. It's actually very easy to avoid being involved: Don't go on TV and suggest crimes!

For example, if I were to go on TV and say: "Somebody should shoot Mitch McConnell", and then somebody did, I would be criminally on the hook in a conspiracy with the shooter. (Which I would never do, of course.)

Trump is guilty of conspiracy, among other things, mostly because he has no clue what things are legal and what things are illegal. Most people who aren't lawyers don't know either, but they have a sense of right and wrong to guide their behavior. Sociopaths don't have that.

This character defect, more than anything else, suggests that Trump is incapable of carrying out his duties as President and that the 25th Amendment applies.

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#307424 - 07/14/18 12:26 PM Re: The Trump Precedency: the 25th Amendment [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6638
Loc: Highlands, Tx
competency is not the question. Did they take the Trump loyalty oath?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#307428 - 07/14/18 03:04 PM Re: The Trump Precedency: the 25th Amendment [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16538
Mr. porter makes a valid (if inadvertent) point, when he says "competency is not the question" - the 25th Amendment does not specify "incompetence":
Quote:
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
It does not specify the "why" he is "unable". If, for example, it is demonstrated that the President is compromised by blackmail from following his oath or is otherwise acting in a traitorous manner against the interest of the country (say, by doing the bidding of a foreign power), he could be removed prior to Impeachment.

I agree, also, that Congress has the responsibility to create a mechanism that is separate from the appointed members of the Cabinet - at least an alternative thereto - perhaps including experts or other non-partisan actors (judges, for example).

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#307439 - 07/14/18 10:11 PM Re: The Trump Precedency: the 25th Amendment [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8228
Loc: North San Diego County
Creating that law would be almost as difficult as impeachment: Both require a 2/3 majority. But the advantage of an expert committee deciding has some real political benefits for members of Congress: They could claim it was up to the experts and they did not impeach Trump. Nice way to CYA!

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