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#308503 - 09/15/18 04:04 PM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16382
I agree that only one party is demonstrating rationality in policy at the moment. And I have a confession. In 1980 I voted for George H.W. Bush in the Republican primary. I thought he was the best qualified candidate. (Ultimately, I voted for Anderson.) By 1988, though, he was spouting Republican dogma and accepting the "voodoo economics" he had railed against before, long after he had been proved right by circumstances. I thought he handled foreign policy well, but domestic policy was left to Republican ideologues, to the nation's, and his own, detriment.

I thought Obama was the best example of a principled and pragmatic candidate in my adult lifetime (I still do). His presidency, I believe, was hampered by overt racism. But his numerous accomplishments have been overshadowed by tribal revisionism.

At this juncture, I agree that the only solution is to rip Republicans, root and branch, from every level of governance. But what then? In the post-Watergate era, Democrats, too, lost their way. They have, I believe, an historic opportunity to create a better path, but only if they do two things: win big globally, and govern on principles. That doesn't mean refusing to compromise, but it does mean taking a firm stand (as in the Kavanaugh hearing), and putting forth strong policies following the lodestar of citizen (not corporate) interests. CFPB is a great example. Beto O'Rourke is a good example of how to present it, too.


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#308509 - 09/15/18 07:37 PM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14420
Loc: Florida
Quote:
the only solution is to rip Republicans, root and branch, from every level of governance. But what then?

First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin.

First we defeat the Republicans, then we reform the Democrats.

First we win in 2018, then we do it again in 2020.

If Democrats are able to put together a blue wave of some sort in 2018, and they hope to maintain power after 2020, they're going to have to do something to make voters happy. A $12 minimum wage would do that. Even a push for that which goes unsigned by the prez would look good. Even a house bill that fails to clear the senate would look good.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308518 - 09/16/18 06:00 PM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8081
Loc: North San Diego County
Here's a pretty stunning example of screwed-up public policy:

You've served your time. Now here's your bill.

In 49 states, inmates are charged for their own incarceration. and not small amounts.

Quote:
The state of Florida, which pays inmate workers a maximum of $0.55 per hour, billed former inmate Dee Taylor $55,000 for his three-year sentence. He would have had to work 100,000 hours, or over 11 years nonstop, at a prison wage to pay for his three year incarceration. Even as a free man working at Florida’s minimum wage of $8.25, he would have to work more than 6,666 hours &#8213; more than three regular work years &#8213; and not spend a penny on anything else to pay it back. These debts are impossible for the even hardest-working people to pay off.


Most people end up going back to jail for failure to pay their jail bill, so it becomes a Kafka-esq nightmare of never-ending debt and prison! I think the fix is simple: Apply the minimum wage law to prisoners.

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#308526 - 09/16/18 09:41 PM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16382
I actually had dream last night that Hillary Clinton won the 2016 election. Merrick Garland was on the Supreme Court, having gotten 60 votes. McConnell was ousted from leadership over his handling of the debacle, and Clinton was about to make her third SC nomination. There was no talk of a blue wave, though, and Republicans were poised to pick up Senate seats. The ACA was bolstered, a $12 minimum wage was established, the economy was booming on the back of a tax cut for the middle class and Citizens United was expected to be overturned.

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#308529 - 09/17/18 03:42 AM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14420
Loc: Florida
Yeah, that's about where we ought to be right now. Instead, the world is waiting for the Trump thing to end.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308530 - 09/17/18 03:50 AM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13419
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I actually had dream last night that Hillary Clinton won the 2016 election. Merrick Garland was on the Supreme Court, having gotten 60 votes. McConnell was ousted from leadership over his handling of the debacle, and Clinton was about to make her third SC nomination. There was no talk of a blue wave, though, and Republicans were poised to pick up Senate seats. The ACA was bolstered, a $12 minimum wage was established, the economy was booming on the back of a tax cut for the middle class and Citizens United was expected to be overturned.


I had a similar dream...then I woke up and screamed into a towel for about an hour.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#308531 - 09/17/18 04:09 AM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13419
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Here's a pretty stunning example of screwed-up public policy:

You've served your time. Now here's your bill.

In 49 states, inmates are charged for their own incarceration. and not small amounts.

Quote:
The state of Florida, which pays inmate workers a maximum of $0.55 per hour, billed former inmate Dee Taylor $55,000 for his three-year sentence. He would have had to work 100,000 hours, or over 11 years nonstop, at a prison wage to pay for his three year incarceration. Even as a free man working at Florida’s minimum wage of $8.25, he would have to work more than 6,666 hours &#8213; more than three regular work years &#8213; and not spend a penny on anything else to pay it back. These debts are impossible for the even hardest-working people to pay off.


Most people end up going back to jail for failure to pay their jail bill, so it becomes a Kafka-esq nightmare of never-ending debt and prison! I think the fix is simple: Apply the minimum wage law to prisoners.


No, our taxes supposedly pay for prisons, people scream and complain about those costs all the time. This is profit oriented.
This is slavery.
I am gobsmacked, gutted.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#308532 - 09/17/18 04:31 AM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41066
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Here's a pretty stunning example of screwed-up public policy:

You've served your time. Now here's your bill.

In 49 states, inmates are charged for their own incarceration. and not small amounts.

Quote:
The state of Florida, which pays inmate workers a maximum of $0.55 per hour, billed former inmate Dee Taylor $55,000 for his three-year sentence. He would have had to work 100,000 hours, or over 11 years nonstop, at a prison wage to pay for his three year incarceration. Even as a free man working at Florida’s minimum wage of $8.25, he would have to work more than 6,666 hours &#8213; more than three regular work years &#8213; and not spend a penny on anything else to pay it back. These debts are impossible for the even hardest-working people to pay off.


Most people end up going back to jail for failure to pay their jail bill, so it becomes a Kafka-esq nightmare of never-ending debt and prison! I think the fix is simple: Apply the minimum wage law to prisoners.


No, our taxes supposedly pay for prisons, people scream and complain about those costs all the time. This is profit oriented.
This is slavery.
I am gobsmacked, gutted.

Is this because of the private prison industry? Also does Dee Taylor happen to be a black American? Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#308533 - 09/17/18 04:32 AM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41066
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I actually had dream last night that Hillary Clinton won the 2016 election. Merrick Garland was on the Supreme Court, having gotten 60 votes. McConnell was ousted from leadership over his handling of the debacle, and Clinton was about to make her third SC nomination.

That was some pretty dang awesome dream. smile There's a reason why they're called dreams. coffee
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#308556 - 09/17/18 09:53 PM Re: Returning rationality to public policy [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2200
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The recidivism rate of the United States is a cool 76% (76% of our released criminals return to prison) - Norway's rate is 20%

Its pretty obvious to me that the United States LOVES their prisoners and are working as hard as they can to make sure that most will return to prison as soon as they can. We should be proud to pay taxes to warehouse them because, again obviously, its necessary to keep prisons full and, as the Republicans say, employment providers need all the help they can get! (these jobs are really important, administration and security are obvious but, remember, them prisoners will work for, literally, pennies an hour!!) Given that much of the prison system has been privatized and investors are reaping profits. This means we gotta two-way success going on - bad guys are in jail and investors are getting a bit richer because of it. We should all be very proud of such success!!


Edited by jgw (09/18/18 06:17 PM)

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