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#307558 - 07/20/18 01:39 AM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: jgw]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3832
Loc: Eugene, OR
Warren Druggs:

He was a fabulous lead guitar player from a Southern rock band back in the day. He still sounds sharp.... if anyone cares to give him a lissin while zoning:

People like and demand drugs. Always have, always will. Laws against such will change nothing as all they do is open up the illegal venues to suppliers who will alleviate “the situation”.

I enjoy your analogies PIA.... Funny chit indeed.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#307561 - 07/20/18 03:19 AM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14409
Loc: Florida
Y'know...I could be sitting here smoking legal ass weed right now. But it aint that good and it's more expensive than the street price.

I'm not driving anywhere.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307563 - 07/20/18 04:57 AM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   sick


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13403
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
There really is a way to stop almost all DUIs: Make people drink at home. Almost all DUIs are people driving home from bars or parties. Hardly anybody gets drunk at home and then gets in the car for a drive.


Check out Sweden's DUI laws, rumored to be the toughest in the world.
But Sweden ALSO subsidizes (or used to last I checked) rides home and even towing for certain distances for inebriated drivers in town.

The solution to DUI is making the penalty bad enough that it destroys your life in a big way.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#307565 - 07/20/18 05:09 PM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14409
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The solution to DUI is making the penalty bad enough that it destroys your life in a big way.


We've done a pretty good job of that. Maybe we've slowed it down a little but it hasn't been the solution. People like to gather and drink together. That generally means all but a few of them are not at home. For 25 years I was married to a teetotaler. Always had a designated driver with me...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307566 - 07/20/18 07:34 PM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2183
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
One of the major problems, with weed decriminalization, is that the taxes placed on the legalized weed is so high that the existing dealers can continue selling at a price less than that of the legalized weed. I live in Washington state and, in the last couple of months, they busted a large, illegal, growing operation. I am told that this is the situation in other states as well. Basically, the greed of the state has kept drug dealers in business. Drug dealers sell to children, so, basically, the legalization has assured us that irresponsible drug dealers are still in business.

In Washington state legalized weed was put under the command of our supposed disbanded, corrupt, and incompetent liquor board. This is a board that the citizens of Washington thought they had gotten rid of a couple of years before legalization took place but, obviously, it went noplace and now get to deal with weed.

If nothing else this proves the staying power of a really mature bureaucracy irregardless of what the public thinks.

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#307582 - 07/21/18 05:11 AM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8057
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
legalization has assured us that irresponsible drug dealers are still in business


No, not at all. It's the state's implementation of legalization that does that. If taxes were not so high, and they let anybody grow all they need, it would completely destroy the illegal market.

How much moonshine do you suppose is sold in California?

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#307586 - 07/21/18 05:02 PM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14409
Loc: Florida
This is silly. Weed isn't a drug. It's a weed. It delivers a short euphoric high when consumed. It's prohibition is based on racist politics not on any medical or scientific basis.

Quote:
...took the scientifically unsupported idea of marijuana as a violence-inducing drug, connected it to black and Hispanic people, and created a perfect package of terror to sell to the American media and public. By emphasizing the Spanish word marihuana instead of cannabis, he created a strong association between the drug and the newly arrived Mexican immigrants who helped popularize it in the States. He also created a narrative around the idea that cannabis made black people forget their place in society. He pushed the idea that jazz was evil music created by people under the influence of marijuana.
LINK

"Marijuana is not a schedule I any more than a hedgehog is an apex predator"

The very same evil, racist, nationalist, forces we are fighting today created the prohibition of cannabis!

Legalizing weed is not going legalize driving under the influencee.
Nor is it going to increase the number of impaired drivers.

Oddly...cannabis legalization is one of the few bipartisan issues on the ballot these days. Marijuana has been the number one cash crop in Kentucky for years. Mich McConnell is pushing for agricultural hemp so his state can get in on the gigantic market for CBD products currently made from imported hemp oil.
And Republicans like to get high too.
I'm really sorry you guys never discovered the wonderful recreational and medicinal uses of this plant. You already know that it reduces the use of opiates, helps with pain management, helps with the symptoms of PTSD and is widely supported by veterans.
It helps children with hopeless cases of epilepsy. It relieves stress and makes sex better. Honestly...this stuff is good for what ails you, makes doing chores a pleasure, and makes having fun even more fun.

All without measurable side effects or consequences.

And you're scared of legalizing the use of it?

Really?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307588 - 07/21/18 06:01 PM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2183
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Marijuana was made illegal a very long time ago. It happened when it was discovered that hemp can produce fiber to produce paper just as well as trees. One can get three crops per year, in the midwest (I am told) and that means that cutting down all the trees, to make paper, is unnecessary. When the paper barons learned this they went to washington, bought congress which then made marijuana illegal. The really major drugs like opium and heroin were made illegal around 1914, marijuana was made illegal around 1938 and, until timber interests got on it wasn't even on the radar. Oh, the 1914 thing was really more about tariffs on drugs rather than banning them as being dangerous. Hell, even Sherlock Holmes used cocain!

Its also kinda interesting that we now are actually moving away from paper. We used to have 3 paper mills due to our timber. Now we have none. China is no longer interested in our waste paper and the price of waste paper has dropped dramatically. Oh, logging communities too are feeling the pinch as paper mills are shutting down (fewer trees being cut down). Around here most of the trees are now exported to foreign places. We also have only 1 lumber mill still going (used to have a few more of those too).

Basically, it took our religious moralists class quite a long time to decide how evil drugs are. A local drug store, now gone, never did get rid of all their opioid 'medicine' and when they took it down they just paved over the basement so there are about 100 cases of opioid 'medicine' under a parking lot. (that one always gave me humor). The Simple fact is that In other words, opioid medicine used to be the goto medicine. Baby crying, give them a teaspoon of opium. Got a cough? Take a sip of opium to set things right. The stunning thing is that with all this use the entire population didn't become addicted. Now, however, I suspect that would no longer be the case, for some reason or other.

Here is a link about this stuff:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...latest-epidemic


Edited by jgw (07/21/18 06:02 PM)

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#307594 - 07/21/18 07:24 PM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14409
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Marijuana was made illegal a very long time ago. It happened when it was discovered that hemp can produce fiber to produce paper just as well as trees.

Well, no. Paper was being made with hemp long before it was made with trees. Hemp was also used to make the sails and ropes aboard sailing ships. Hemp oil was used as fuel and as medicine. The battle was between hemp products and new materials like nylon and other synthetic products.
It was farmers vs industrialists. Farmers lost. Billionaires won.

Same battle we fight today. Sustainable biodegradable products vs Petroleum based plastic which is slowly destroying the environment.

Milk of the Poppy has always been good medicine. But it's medicine that belongs in the hands of healers who understand its use and dangers. Just like antibiotics, painkillers have been overly prescribed by doctors and millions have become addicted. Thousands have been killed. We've got a lot of work to do on our healthcare system before this thing comes under control. Drug addiction is a healthcare issue, not a criminal one.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307605 - 07/22/18 07:54 PM Re: The War On Drugs [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2183
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Gregor;
Don't want to beat a dead horse and agree about other products made from hemp which also included hemp rope which continues to be made in the rest of the world. My use of the word "discovered" was just wrong. There are approximately 500,000 google replies like those below. About 1 out of 15 are those against those below. From my own standpoint I used to have a friend (actually he was more a friend of my dad but we used to talk), now long gone, who was high in the timber industries halls of power. He told me about their part in it all. I also agree that addiction is a healthcare problem - ALL addiction.

I also stand behind my thoughts on the Portugal solution as well as the african drug. I also know a bit about this drug thing as my sister has lost two kids to drugs and 2 more have been wrecked by them.

https://www.alternet.org/story/77339/debunking_the_hemp_conspiracy_theory
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/346143921343570414/?lp=true
http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v13/2/timber.html
http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/pot/blunderof37.html
https://www.massroots.com/learn/the-man-responsible-for-marijuana-prohibition/

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