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#307927 - 08/16/18 03:13 AM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14202
Loc: Florida
You just can't even imagine what a difference it would make in my life to have an extra hundred tacked onto my monthly Social Security check.

I'm expecting a cut though. So Tim can have his extra hundred.

There's gotta be some give and take in life and I guess it's best to take from those who need it most and give to those who need it least.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307929 - 08/16/18 12:15 PM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: Greger]
Ma_Republican Online   content
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6497
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Greger
You just can't even imagine what a difference it would make in my life to have an extra hundred tacked onto my monthly Social Security check.

I'm expecting a cut though. So Tim can have his extra hundred.

There's gotta be some give and take in life and I guess it's best to take from those who need it most and give to those who need it least.


Social Security is a government managed retirement fund. It is not a government program. If you don't get that extra hundred in your check, maybe you should ask them why they mismanaged the fund to begin with. Tax cuts should have absolutely nothing to do with Social Security. The fact that you think it should is the major problem with the system.

For most of my adult life I have been paying into 401Ks and IRA's. I never expected that I would collect Social Security, but I am old enough now that I probably will. With my retirement, investments and Social Security I plan on moving to a low tax state, one that will allow me to ride a motorcycle year round, and living a nice quiet life. That plan is actually almost a reality, just a few more years...

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#307931 - 08/16/18 12:58 PM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8872
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
Social Security is a government managed retirement fund.

No, it isn't. It is a government run insurance program. "Your" social security contributions go into a pool and are paid out according to how long you live times a formula of how much you paid in. It's not at all like a retirement fund where you are paid back the money you put in, plus interest. With social security you can get a little back out, a lot, or something in between.

For a fiscal conservative, you sure don't seem to understand financial issues very well!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#307933 - 08/16/18 06:05 PM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: logtroll]
Ma_Republican Online   content
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6497
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
Social Security is a government managed retirement fund.

No, it isn't. It is a government run insurance program. "Your" social security contributions go into a pool and are paid out according to how long you live times a formula of how much you paid in. It's not at all like a retirement fund where you are paid back the money you put in, plus interest. With social security you can get a little back out, a lot, or something in between.

For a fiscal conservative, you sure don't seem to understand financial issues very well!


Nope, you are wrong. Social Security is a government managed trust fund, (pyramid scheme). When it was introduced the contributions were in the 10 to 15 people paying in for every payout. Now, it is about 3.5:1. It has been attacked and diluted over the years to include many social programs that were never envisioned and never properly funded. It has also been used as a piggy bank for Congress to raid and pillage.

Quote:
Trust fund[edit]

Main article: Social Security Trust Fund

Social Security taxes are paid into the Social Security Trust Fund maintained by the U.S. Treasury (technically, the "Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund", as established by 42 U.S.C. § 401(a)). Current year expenses are paid from current Social Security tax revenues. When revenues exceed expenditures, as they did between 1983 and 2009,[25] the excess is invested in special series, non-marketable U.S. government bonds. Thus, the Social Security Trust Fund indirectly finances the federal government's general purpose deficit spending. In 2007, the cumulative excess of Social Security taxes and interest received over benefits paid out stood at $2.2 trillion.[69] Some regard the Trust Fund as an accounting construct with no economic significance. Others argue that it has specific legal significance because the Treasury securities it holds are backed by the "full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which has an obligation to repay its debt.[citation needed]

The Social Security Administration's authority to make benefit payments as granted by Congress extends only to its current revenues and existing Trust Fund balance, i.e., redemption of its holdings of Treasury securities. Therefore, Social Security's ability to make full payments once annual benefits exceed revenues depends in part on the federal government's ability to make good on the bonds that it has issued to the Social Security trust funds. As with any other federal obligation, the federal government's ability to repay Social Security is based on its power to tax and borrow and the commitment of Congress to meet its obligations.

In 2009 the Office of the Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration calculated an unfunded obligation of $15.1 trillion for the Social Security program. The unfunded obligation is the difference between the future cost of Social Security (based on several demographic assumptions such as mortality, work force participation, immigration, and age expectancy) and total assets in the Trust Fund given the expected contribution rate through the current scheduled payroll tax. This unfunded obligation is expressed in present value dollars and is a part of the Fund's long-range actuarial estimates, not necessarily a certainty of what will occur in the long run. An Actuarial Note to the calculation says that "The term obligation is used in lieu of the term liability, because liability generally indicates a contractual obligation (as in the case of private pensions and insurance) that cannot be altered by the plan sponsor without the agreement of the plan participants."[70][71] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)


So, when you start talking about SSI, do a little research. SSI is not Social Security and Social Security is not a government program. It is not, in theory, paid for through tax dollars. It is a private fund that is "managed" by congress.

Tim


Edited by Ma_Republican (08/16/18 06:08 PM)
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#307934 - 08/16/18 07:27 PM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: Ma_Republican]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14202
Loc: Florida
Quote:
For most of my adult life I have been paying into 401Ks and IRA's. I never expected that I would collect Social Security, but I am old enough now that I probably will. With my retirement, investments and Social Security I plan on moving to a low tax state, one that will allow me to ride a motorcycle year round, and living a nice quiet life. That plan is actually almost a reality, just a few more years...


I'm already retired in that state and am living a nice quiet life. There's old men riding motorcycles all over the place. Year round.
If I could ride a motorcycle I'd be one of them. If I could afford a motorcycle.
I didn't want or plan to retire. But shite happens, y'know?
As far as that $100 goes, there are people who need it worse than me right now so I'd rather it went to them.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307936 - 08/16/18 11:31 PM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8872
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Quote:
So, when you start talking about SSI, do a little research. SSI is not Social Security and Social Security is not a government program. It is not, in theory, paid for through tax dollars. It is a private fund that is "managed" by congress.

Tim

HEY TIM!
Quote:
The United States Social Security Administration (SSA) is an independent agency of the U.S. federal government that administers Social Security, a social insurance program consisting of retirement, disability, and survivors' benefits. To qualify for most of these benefits, most workers pay Social Security taxes on their earnings; the claimant's benefits are based on the wage earner's contributions. Otherwise benefits such as Supplemental Security Income (SSI) are given based on need.

"A social insurance program..."
"...most worker's pay Social Security taxes..."
"Otherwise benefits are based on need."

Try as you might, Social Security is not going to magically transform away from a social insurance program into a private retirement account.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#307938 - 08/17/18 12:38 AM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: Golem]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7891
Loc: North San Diego County
MA, you complain about Congress taking Social Security funds in one post and then post something that states exactly how the Social Security Administration invests excess collections in US T-Bills, the safest investment in the world. Calling that "taking" assumes that T-Bills will be worthless in the future. The idea that "the gubmint" steals Social Security funds is a stupid right-wing fantasy, that just will not die no matter how many stakes are driven through it's heart.

If US T-Bills are ever worthless, we'll have much greater problems than not getting your Social Security check. It would probably mean Trump succeeded in turning America over to Putin, and we all have to go stand in line to get bread. And they're out of bread...

Yes, Social Security has a Trust Fund, but that's not holding your payments until you retire. It is the excess they collect over the amount they pay out. Most of their intake goes out right away in payments. It is really old age poverty insurance: Much more like an annuity than anything else, but with fantastically low management expenses. It is the most conservative part of most people's retirement portfolio, which is important because most people make horrible investment decisions.

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#307943 - 08/17/18 01:09 AM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14202
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The idea that "the gubmint" steals Social Security funds is a stupid right-wing fantasy, that just will not die no matter how many stakes are driven through it's heart.


Really? They had me fooled too!

**Googles furiously**

Yep, you're right THIS explains it pretty nicely.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307945 - 08/17/18 01:17 AM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14202
Loc: Florida
Quote:
most people make horrible investment decisions.


**sheepishly raises hand** blush
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#307946 - 08/17/18 01:25 AM Re: Illinois celebrates first official 'Barack Obama Day' [Re: Ma_Republican]
NW Ponderer Online   content
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16205
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
With my retirement, investments and Social Security I plan on moving to a low tax state, one that will allow me to ride a motorcycle year round, and living a nice quiet life. That plan is actually almost a reality, just a few more years...

Tim
I'm already living that dream.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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