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#308144 - 08/27/18 08:30 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 443
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Let us pray that, that will be very soon!
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#308150 - 08/27/18 11:21 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I don't know how the system works.

I predict Mr Trump will end the Russia Investigation. Despite all the peremptory threats from Republican Senators I also predict neither Sen McConnell nor Rep Ryan will do anything to either stop the action or react to it.

Now this is what I think will happen. All the research and evidence will be archived or destroyed. I don't know if SP Mueller could write a report from the position of a discharged SP. I don't know what value it would have. It may still not matter since it is not likely Democrats would win a majority in the Senate.

Mr Trump (as president) has become a person above the law because of his singular position as president.

The 2020 general election is in jeopardy. If Mr Trump loses the 2020, no Trump supporter will believe the results are valid. This would be a crippling blow to the foundations of government. Remember there are a lot of extremist nuts in Congress.

just some rambling thoughts
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308151 - 08/28/18 12:26 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
Going so outside the law and normal order has consequences: At some point in there, random disconnected people start burning down Senator's and Rep's home offices, threatening them or their families, or actually taking pot shots at Congressmen. Being a Republican Congressman who won't act against Trump becomes dangerous. Their jobs are not just in jeopardy, their lives are at risk. The Secret Service becomes over-burdened trying to provide security for every Congressman and his family, his home office, his residence, and so on.

I think under those conditions, enough would decide Pence is a perfectly good option.

Please note that I would never do any of these things. I'm just saying that there are millions of people out there who would support it, and thousands who are crazy enough to do it. We've already seen it at that Republican softball game.

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#308153 - 08/28/18 01:20 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16986
Here is how I see things proceeding after the mid term selections. I think the House will go to the Democrats, barring a substantial event. There is a small chance the Senate will shift as well. In the short term, Republicans will rush through as much as they can during the lame-duck period.

Come January, additional indictments are likely (maybe even by November). Democrats will initiate investigations into a variety of issues being suppressed by Republicans. As more information comes out, Trump's approval will take a hit, even among diehards. Trump will no longer control the agenda.

Impeachment will not occur before the year is out (investigations take time). That could be stepped up considerably if Mueller issues a report. His indictments already provide a clear roadmap. His report will be even more detailed. If Trump issues pardons, impeachment will come even faster.

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#308155 - 08/28/18 03:41 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
If Trump issues pardons, impeachment will come even faster.

Blue-state AGs are just chomping at the bit to thwart Trump pardons with state charges, just to show that they are mostly ineffective. I don't suppose anybody has bothered to tell Trump? I bet they are all waiting until the day a pardon is announced to file, just to demoralize the opposition.

And remember what a pain in the ass Daryl Issa was? We would have his House committee that does nothing but investigate government, but run by a Democrat with power to investigate, subpoena, charge uncooperative folks with Contempt of Congress, and publish endless malfeasance reports. It would be Bengazi all over again, but with actual crimes and criminals!

I think Trump is toast without both Houses of Congress to cover for him.

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#308157 - 08/28/18 04:32 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Yes I have seen movies in which the protagonist had lost all integrity but at some point had an epiphany and for just one moment did the right thing ... but alas ... it was only in make believe.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308165 - 08/28/18 04:53 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16986
"Don, I am your father."
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#308167 - 08/28/18 06:35 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I guess I should add some stuff about the book: house of trump : house of putin.

The author have over 1000 source notes and researches the trump affiliation of Trump with Putin back over the last 30 years.

The author is also on twitter:
https://twitter.com/craigunger?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

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#308168 - 08/28/18 09:33 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
here is the problem with thousands of citations, intel reports, crime reports, etc ... if they are just stand alone items without connection, all he has is a pattern of criminality (this is the same as Schweizer's book). The nutty talk show hosts use the same technique to "prove" Sec Clinton is not just the spawn of Satan but Satan. They start with a fact. Yes a real live unimpeachable fact ... not an alternative fact. The they mention the conclusion they want to reach. And if by magic they will present a case full of "facts" (actually assumptions) which prove the claim.

Now don't get me wrong. There is little doubt Mr Trump had been consorting with Russians for some time. The problem is, was it more than just consorting? Did he break the law or just step all over the envelope?

For me, I have to see the books

*****

The current case is curious. I do not know if anyone can "prove" conspiracy (which I believe is the correct charge) but certainly there was a level of interaction which could easily be construed as collusion. But does it rise to the level of a crime?

However, I think there may be fairly clear evidence of obstruction of an investigation. So why would Mr Trump try to obstruct an investigation? Was he simply trying to protect Gen Flynn? but why? Mr Trump doesn't give a sheis about anyone but himself. just curious.

What about all the false statements he made? Of course he could be lying to the press ... it is not against the law, but sure is misleading. Or was he trying to protect his sons from possible criminal liability? Did he sense they may have broken the law and he was trying to protect them?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#308169 - 08/28/18 11:02 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
A couple of corrections: Conspiracy does not require collusion. You don't even have to know the other person or people! You just have to be working toward the same illegal goal. I think this is decided law right up to the Supreme Court.

Lying to the press is not illegal under most circumstances. But when there is an active investigation, lying to the press about something that could affect the investigation IS Obstruction of Justice. Just like lying to another person is usually not illegal, but do it to influence a potential witness and it is Witness Tampering (which Manafort found out the hard way.)

There is a very good reason why lawyers first of all tell their clients to stop talking. Anything you say will probably hurt your case and almost certainly not help.

Number One Rule: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

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