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#308189 - 08/29/18 04:09 PM The Incredible Shrinking Party
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16380
Lately, Donald Trump has taken to crowing (often erroneously) about his poll numbers. Usually he is, as is his wont, only talking about Republicans, as non-Republicans don't exist in his fantasy world. Taken on their own, it would appear that polls show his support among Republicans is remarkably high. But, what if he just had a bigger slice of a smaller pie?
Quote:
polls show high Republican support for President Trump, but those polls don’t measure change in party identification. Most Republicans back Trump, but there might be fewer Republicans. If so, the dreaded GOP base might be less fearsome than it appears.
The Republican Base Might Not Be As Scary As It Looks - Slate.

According to Pew research, there has been a marked decline in republican party identification since the advent of Trump.
Quote:
A new analysis of party identification, based on more than 10,000 interviews of registered voters conducted by Pew Research Center in 2017, finds that 37% of registered voters identify as independents, 33% are Democrats and 26% are Republicans.
Pew Research Canter Moreover, as Slate points out, "Gallup shows a similar change: From November 2016 to November 2017, there was a 5-point drop in the number of people who called themselves Republicans, from 42 percent to 37 percent. Democratic self-identification remained unchanged at 44 percent."
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#308191 - 08/29/18 04:43 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41066
Loc: Puget Sound, WA



I've been reading about this phenomena. Republicans don't want to discuss their shrinking numbers. laugh

Yes, Fatboy has a high approval about Republicans, but there are fewer Republicans today, than there were in 2010. Dying from old age, is a pesky thing. coffee

This reality is why Republicans can only win Electorally in Presidential elections and not with BOTH Electoral votes and Popular votes as seen in 2000 and 2016.

This is why Republicans have resorted to gerrymandering, voter ID laws, rigging elections with Russia's help, and all around cheating. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#308193 - 08/29/18 05:28 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2200
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
After watching the primary returns its obvious, even if their numbers are decreasing, the VOTE! When looking at the actual number of those voting, for and/or against, that the voters on the right seem to be either casting more ballots than voters from the left.

In the Florida governor race, for instance, the Right actually turned out MORE voters than the left.
https://www.politico.com/election-results/2018/florida/

I think this should be a REAL concern for the Democrats. They have always had a problem turning out the vote, but, this time, if they can't do it then all this talk of Republican failures will dim besides a Democratic loss due to lazy voters.

I have also seen a number of political ads. The Right is working hard to paint the Left as Tax and Spend Socialists. Its REALLY time for the Left to fight back against this one instead of just letting the right demonize them. The current administration, for instance, not only spent like crazy (added almost 2 trillion to the debt) but then, with their tax bill, made sure they couldn't pay for any of it. The Democrats, if they like it or not, have been, and remain, the party of financial responsibility - NOT the Republicans. I guess I should add that the "socialist" tag is a self inflicted wound of the Left with their claims of "Democratic Socialism" (damned fools - ie. Democratic Fools is more like it).

<sigh>

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#308195 - 08/29/18 05:35 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14420
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Republicans have resorted to gerrymandering, voter ID laws, rigging elections with Russia's help, and all around cheating.

And yet they control the entire Federal government and most local and state governments...

At the end of the day, Republicans promise more money in your pocket if you already have plenty of money in your pocket. There is more to governing than making the rich richer. They've got the BIG money behind them. Big money can get things done behind the scenes. There's more than electoral skulduggery behind the Republican winning streak. There's money. Lots and lots of money.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308197 - 08/29/18 06:05 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14420
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I think this should be a REAL concern for the Democrats.


Oh, trust me....we're concerned.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308199 - 08/29/18 06:25 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: jgw]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8914
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: jgw
I guess I should add that the "socialist" tag is a self inflicted wound of the Left with their claims of "Democratic Socialism" (damned fools - ie. Democratic Fools is more like it).

It's true, the word Socialism is so tainted by the Regressives (they've been working on it for many, many decades, with the assistance of the Democrats) that there is no hope of redemption to a kinder and functionally positive meaning. I have learned in the grant writing world that if you have to educate your audience to any great degree on what you are talking about, then you aren't serious about actually getting a grant.

I think that Social Democrats and Progressives should start using the label "New Deal Democrats". The New Deal has widespread venerability and has actual proven program examples. I'd like to see some candidates declare, "I'm an old school New Deal Democrat!!"
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#308200 - 08/29/18 08:12 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8081
Loc: North San Diego County
Some folks just plain thrive on being right but never winning! Maybe because one day they WILL win and then all their beautiful dreams of us all marching hand-in-hand into a fantastic future will come true. And we'll all ride around on flying unicorns, too.

We have to live in this world, not some fantasy. Be a socialist all you want, they have some good ideas. But for God's sake, don't call yourself a socialist if you want to win elections! That's like driving with the emergency brake on.

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#308203 - 08/29/18 09:03 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1158
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Some folks just plain thrive on being right but never winning! Maybe because one day they WILL win and then all their beautiful dreams of us all marching hand-in-hand into a fantastic future will come true. And we'll all ride around on flying unicorns, too.

We have to live in this world, not some fantasy. Be a socialist all you want, they have some good ideas. But for God's sake, don't call yourself a socialist if you want to win elections! That's like driving with the emergency brake on.


Irony?

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#308204 - 08/30/18 12:09 AM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14420
Loc: Florida
Going farther and farther right just to appease a mob of aging centrist voters is also driving with the emergency brake on.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308206 - 08/30/18 12:31 AM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8081
Loc: North San Diego County
Not really. How many self-identified Socialists are sitting in the House? How many in the Senate? Isn't the answer 1? Yet if you look at voting records there are Reps and Senators who voted left of Bernie over the years. (Mostly because he keeps supporting 2nd Amendment issues.) Even Nancy Pelosi has a more leftward voting record!

The only logical conclusion is: Be as left as you like, but call yourself Progressive or a New Deal Democrat if you want a seat in Congress.

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#308211 - 08/30/18 01:52 AM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14420
Loc: Florida
Point is...if we keep moving to the right we just become Republicans.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308212 - 08/30/18 02:08 AM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14420
Loc: Florida
Oh...and Florida just chose the extremists in both parties while telling centrists to go pound salt.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308216 - 08/30/18 04:58 AM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8081
Loc: North San Diego County
I don't think Democrats have to move right. Classic Republicans have to decide if they can stomach Trump-supporter candidates. Otherwise they can abstain or vote for the Democrat! Several prominent Republicans have suggested just that.

We shall see how well Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez does in the general election with her self-proclaimed Democratic-Socialist identification. I still think a Democrat can be as socialist as he or she wants. Just don't destroy your candidacy with a lot of old people's prejudices about Communism and the Soviet Union. A socialist can win on the issues: Most people actually like government programs that benefit them. The key is to wrap yourself in the flag, praise Jesus, and say your Republican opponent wants to destroy Social Security and MediCare. (Which has the advantage of being true!)

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#308220 - 08/30/18 02:24 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1158
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I don't think Democrats have to move right. Classic Republicans have to decide if they can stomach Trump-supporter candidates. Otherwise they can abstain or vote for the Democrat! Several prominent Republicans have suggested just that.

We shall see how well Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez does in the general election with her self-proclaimed Democratic-Socialist identification. I still think a Democrat can be as socialist as he or she wants. Just don't destroy your candidacy with a lot of old people's prejudices about Communism and the Soviet Union. A socialist can win on the issues: Most people actually like government programs that benefit them. The key is to wrap yourself in the flag, praise Jesus, and say your Republican opponent wants to destroy Social Security and MediCare. (Which has the advantage of being true!)


She didn't self proclaim anything. She was endorsed by as well as joined the DSA.

From the horses mouth

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#308221 - 08/30/18 03:09 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16380
Um, chunk, isn't her statement exactly what "self-proclaimed" means?

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#308230 - 08/30/18 11:02 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1158
"Adj. 1. self-proclaimed - proclaimed to be or described as such by oneself, without endorsement by others; "self-proclaimed experts"

I thought she was a member of as well as being actively endorsed and supported by DSA. No?

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#308231 - 08/30/18 11:56 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14420
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I don't think Democrats have to move right.

They already have. They need to move to the left.
Quote:
We shall see how well Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez does in the general election

Yes we shall, though it's a pretty safe district and she'll most likely win.

Florida's gubernatorial is not the least bit safe, Gillum vs. DeSantis is a race between the TEA Party and the social democrats. If he plays his cards right(and doesn't label himself a socialist) there's a good chance he can win. But no matter what he labels himself as you can bet his opponent will label him a socialist and use the word loudly and often.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308262 - 09/01/18 04:13 AM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8081
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
opponent will label him a socialist and use the word loudly and often


And that's when you should insist you are a New Deal Democrat and bring up Social Security and Medicare. It's especially fun if you can get your opponent talking about Republican ideas about Social Security and Medicare: Nothing more hilarious than a rich old fat guy explaining to people on fixed incomes why they should get less money!

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#308263 - 09/01/18 02:16 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16380
President Vice, Mike Pence, has long described himself as "Christian, a conservative and a Republican – in that order." What he leaves out in that statement, as do most Republicans, is "American". When I spent time in D.C, and throughout my time in government, I always found that the vast majority of government workers, including elected representatives, were most proud of the fact that they were serving the people. For the workers, I believe that is still true. For decades, though, the Republican party had been casting the most loyal, dedicated, and patriotic Americans as "the enemy". They belittle them, they attack their livelihoods, they fire them en masse. Trump has just amplified that, turning it up past 11.

The GOP likes to portray themselves as patriotic and wrap themselves in the flag, proclaiming they are the party of "American values", yet, they routinely betray their constituents and "fellow citizens" and make every effort to hurt them. They display none of the real values that most Americans hold dear. It has taken a very long time for their membership to come to grips with how hollow the party has become, and too many refuse to see what is right in front of them.

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#308287 - 09/03/18 04:11 PM Re: The Incredible Shrinking Party [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16380
Juan Williams: Trump's 'majority' is fake - the Hill.
Quote:
Republican control of Capitol Hill and the White House is based on a "fake majority."

"A majority of the Senate now represents just 18 percent of the nation's population," David Wasserman, an editor for The Cook Political Report, wrote in a recent New York Times column.
That's an important thought. Think about it. As Williams notes: "America's politics are being run by a cabal in the Senate that fails to represent 82 percent of the American people." It's why Congress consistently passes unpopular laws, how the Senate is confirming dozens of judges that are at the fringe of judicial jurisprudence (many purely unqualified), and the Supreme Court is at odds with the US population's wishes on most topics.

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