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#308544 - 09/17/18 08:14 AM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10124
Loc: North San Diego County
I think the money laundering stuff is well documented. We're talking about real estate transactions that all got recorded by the state! And why on earth would the DEMOCRAT AG of New York not want to seize billions of dollars of dirty money? Or the treasurer of New York not want to have the state tax authorities prosecute tax fraud? Or even the Republican AG of Florida, if that person is a Republican.

Is that some kind of new Republican idea, not to seize assets from illegal activities? Like sending people who turn state's evidence to jail?

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#308547 - 09/17/18 05:41 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17044
Loc: Florida
If all these "crimes" are so well documented then why wasn't Trump arrested years ago? Why hasn't Mueller swooped in and had him arrested?

Quote:
I've always felt the the Intel community has known about Trump's crimes for a very long time and this presidency thingy was their way to round up the entire cabal and put an end to it.


You've always felt this way? Since you were a child? You suspected there was a conspiracy in the intel community to have Donald Trump run for office, and arrange for him to win, so they could arrest him and others for well documented crimes that have taken place over decades...

I think ya'll done gone off the deep end and I'm just trying to push you back to shallow water.

Trump is guilty of being a rich assh0le. He's unethical and immoral, he's probably sold property to criminals or foriegn nationals, effectively laundering their money. He's probably cheated on his taxes. But generally speaking he's no worse than a thousand just like him.

Everybody has a pet theory, mine is that the whole presidential run was nothing but a PR run-up to his opening of the hotel in DC. It was a complete fluke that he won, surprising him more than anyone else in the country.
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#308549 - 09/17/18 07:00 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17403
Originally Posted By: Greger
If all these "crimes" are so well documented then why wasn't Trump arrested years ago? Why hasn't Mueller swooped in and had him arrested?
oh oh, I'll take this one!

Until Trump jumped into the national limelight, there wasn't much incentive to pursue an investigation against him. White collar criminals rarely get commensurate sentences, and financial cases are notoriously expensive to pursue. Consider Manafort's trials as an example. Also consider how long it took to bring Bernie Madoff to trial. Prosecutors' offices run on shoestring budgets.

Now, however, there is motivation, as his activities are affecting many more people, and are being conducted in the open. Mueller is careful, thorough, and fair. It takes a long time to put together a financial case, Trump's finances are deliberately opaque, and there are a lot of witnesses to corral. He's only been on the job for 18 months.

You can tell Trump and his Republican cohorts are feeling desperate. Have you seen the Trump TV breathless coverage of Lisa Page's testimony from May of last year? Once the November election is over, be prepared for hell to break loose. It will take time, but before the 2020 election there will be a fulsome public record of Trump misdeeds, from tax fraud to money laundering, and then some.

I'm still not sure there will be much stomach to prosecute, but the Trump organization will be in tatters. Too many cats are already out of their bags.

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#308550 - 09/17/18 08:44 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17044
Loc: Florida
Mueller's investigation is not focused on Donald Trump's finances.

The investigation is into whether or not there was Russian interference in the election and if Donald Trump colluded with them.

They aren't building a long complicated financial case against Trump, they are investigating Russian interference.
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#308551 - 09/17/18 08:52 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17044
Loc: Florida
Who has Mueller indicted? Real estate people in New York? Casino operators?

Nope, Russians. 12 Russian intelligence officers, 13 Russian nationals, and 3 Russian companies. Manafort is an expert on Russians and has lots of contacts. He's got info that Mueller wants...about Russians. Not Trump.
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#308552 - 09/17/18 09:11 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7240
Loc: Highlands, Tx
to further pursue in this speculation. see if this makes sense in any reasonable way.

The Russians were going to meddle in the 2016 anyway. They were under sanctions. There was a wildcard candidate who had interest in promoting Russian real estate ventures. Putin sees an opportunity to take advantage of this. Send Manafort to Mr Trump. Manafort could be actually representing Russian interests but with an eye to some how catapult Mr Trump into the presidency. Change the platform ... meet Russian dirt farmers ... back channel coms ... Trump Tower Moscow.

Could it be Manafort took advantage of a campaign to promote Russian interests hidden in the chaos without Trump people comprehending what was happening?

I think this could be the seed for an intriguing political thriller ... foreign power capturing the US presidency

wait a sec ... is that real or is that my imagination?
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ignorance is the enemy
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#308553 - 09/17/18 09:20 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17403
Well, my friend, we are all speculating. Yes, I agree, because that is the basis for his appointment, the primary concern for Mueller and his team is collusion with Russians. However, as with Manafort, it is hard to get at the nub of the problem without looking at finances. After all, the most common influence is financial. Trump's finances are undoubtedly messy - you can't be as scatterbrained as he is without having messy finances, and he is as corrupt as anyone in public life. It is not that Mueller is focusing on building a financial case, it is that it has been dropped into his lap. His mandate requires he look into it. Once that can of worms is opened, Katy, bar the door.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#308554 - 09/17/18 09:29 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Port Angeles, WA


Edited by jgw (09/17/18 09:31 PM)

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#308557 - 09/17/18 10:01 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17044
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Well, my friend, we are all speculating.


It gets to be a little bit of a "Lock Her Up" chant sometimes. Trump has led a charmed life, everything he touches turns to gold. He has survived scandal after scandal, dodged bullet after bullet.

Do you think this will be the bullet that brings him down?

I don't.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#308560 - 09/18/18 03:09 AM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 646
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
There is one difference between then and now. Then he was a private individual and he was able to cow many people. Now he is a public figure and the people after him do not frighten and are people he has no power over. His underlings are more afraid of the people after him then they are of him.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (09/18/18 03:10 AM)
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