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Public option vs Medicare for All
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Why are the Democrats waiting?
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MSNBC’s Touré: Romney Engaging In The ‘N.....izati
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11/01/19 08:44 AM
POLL: Will Trump resign or stay and be impeached?
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10/31/19 06:25 PM
Trump Doings
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10/30/19 08:11 PM
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10/29/19 04:40 AM
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#308364 - 09/09/18 12:14 AM The United States v Donald Trump
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17149
I wasn't sure where to start this thread, but I wanted to start this conversation. I do not believe that Trump will be impeached, nor do I think there will be an indictment while he is in office. I do, however, think he is guilty as hell of numerous criminal violations, and at some point will be held to account. The question is, where and for what?

I'm not aware of any incident where a former President has been prosecuted for a crime. More than one Vice President has been prosecuted (I'm aware of two, one for murder). So, when Trump is indicted, it will be an historic event. Nixon was pardoned, would Pence do the same for Trump?
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#308366 - 09/09/18 03:39 AM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6931
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Hasn't that been the case in recent years.

Scott free ... maybe Mr Trump is the greatest human to have ever lived
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#308515 - 09/16/18 04:48 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15628
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I'm not aware of any incident where a former President has been prosecuted for a crime.

I'm not aware of any president being elected who was so obviously a criminal.

I also doubt he will be impeached. But will he run again? Of course he claims he will and collects money for the 2020 campaign...but is he really enjoying this? Does he want to keep doing it for another 4 years? He's gonna be 75. The white house is a slum compared to his regular digs, Melania hates it, his personal entourage of sycophants has been devastated and even his family is avoiding him. The only thing keeping him sane is his trips to Mar-a-Lago.

Maybe Mueller is avoiding the low hanging fruit; the wire fraud, tax fraud, and money laundering, and will stick to collusion with Russia to influence the election. There may not be any "collusion". Mueller might not file anything more than some petty misuse of campaign funds and there will be no United Sates vs Donald Trump.
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#308516 - 09/16/18 05:49 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8864
Loc: North San Diego County
On January 21, 2020, I bet some state AGs file charges against Trump. It's very well documented and Mueller has shared this information with the appropriate AGs. Whoever the next President is, his pardon will have no effect on state charges. In fact, accepting a pardon requires an admission of guilt, so state prosecution gets much easier! It might not be US v Trump, but it will be at least New York v Trump. Maybe Florida v Trump for all the real estate money laundering for oligarchs.

Federal charges are not necessary. Most people are in state prison, not federal. Most executions are done by states, not the US. Of particular interest will be asset seizure: If all of his money has come from criminal activities, then it is subject to seizure! If all his kids money has come from those sources, bye bye money.

I bet Florida could use it's share of that money.

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#308521 - 09/16/18 06:51 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I suspect that all the state AG's are just waiting for Mueller to finish up before they start up. I also believe the claims that Russia owns Jackass, because they bailed him out when he was 4 billion in debt (I think that was the figure). According to a Trump interview "you really don't want to owe them any money" and he, apparently, owes them billions! Mueller has his accountant/manager who knows all about the money and now Manafort will probably validate the Jackass/Russian 'partnership' which he was probably involved with. If this is proven then its all over. The only question will be if they give him the Nixon options - go away or we file charges. Hopefully, no matter which is chosen he gets stripped of assets as I fully also believe that Jackass has run a criminal enterprise which makes his assets, basically, ill gotten gains.

Just saying.............

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#308522 - 09/16/18 07:41 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: jgw]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3861
Loc: Eugene, OR
Yet most of his fans will not accept this and will continue to believe DJT was indeed set up by the “Deep State” conspiracy. Trump continues to remind them of this “fact” almost daily.

Trump’s removal will be an ugly event indeed and I continue to ponder just how ugly this whole thing will get. Trumps fans continue to believe that their man is their lord and savior who is being set up to be unfairly crucified by the heathen unwashed cabal of librulz. And reasoned logic will never emanate from true believers. Never has, never will.

Batten the hatches.....
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#308523 - 09/16/18 08:31 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: Ken Condon]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15628
Loc: Florida
I'm still betting he skates.

Why would state AGs care one way or another? Every rich man is probably guilty of a multitude of crimes. They're handy for getting the Cohens and Manaforts to talk but Mueller is investigating Russian Collusion, not financial crimes.
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#308527 - 09/16/18 09:43 PM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14416
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
I'm still betting he skates.

Why would state AGs care one way or another? Every rich man is probably guilty of a multitude of crimes. They're handy for getting the Cohens and Manaforts to talk but Mueller is investigating Russian Collusion, not financial crimes.


As for skating, it's a matter of degree.
Why would state AG's care? Because a con man at Trump's level can wind up costing states BILLIONS, and that's a mighty good motivator.
If you're a state AG, and you've learned the magnitude of Trump's crimes, you're not going to want him infecting your state at a lower level just because he walked on the federal level, or got pardoned.

Yes, of course your party affiliation MIGHT also be an influence, so some red states might welcome the man.
I wouldn't want to be a resident of any state that welcomed him, that's for sure.
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#308528 - 09/17/18 01:04 AM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15628
Loc: Florida
The magnitude of Trump's crimes? As far as I know he's been charged with nothing and may never be charged with anything.

Ya'll practically got him tried, convicted, and behind bars.

I'll believe it when I see it.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308534 - 09/17/18 04:35 AM Re: The United States v Donald Trump [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42032
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I'm not aware of any incident where a former President has been prosecuted for a crime.

I'm not aware of any president being elected who was so obviously a criminal.

I've always felt the the Intel community has known about Trump's crimes for a very long time and this presidency thingy was their way to round up the entire cabal and put an end to it.

That Donald Trump's election was allowed to happen for this very reason. Hmm

Then again, I could be wrong. gobsmacked But I seriously doubt it. smile
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