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#308615 - 09/24/18 08:01 PM A time when politics were not all about greed
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2129
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Harry Truman went from Senator, to Vice President, to President, to dropping the atom bomb on Hiroshima in 29 weeks. When he left office he was almost on the dole. The congress passed a presidential retirement thing and Herbert Hoover agreed to take the retirement so Harry Truman could too - without embarrassment. It was, obviously, a time when greed didn't rule supreme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman#Vice_Presidency_(1945)


Edited by jgw (09/24/18 08:01 PM)

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#308624 - 09/25/18 03:58 PM Re: A time when politics were not all about greed [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14268
Loc: Florida
So the guy who caused The Great Depression did a nice thing for the guy who dropped the atomic bomb on civilians.

Can't tell you how impressed I am. Really...can't.

Politics has always been about greed. Always will be.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308632 - 09/25/18 06:58 PM Re: A time when politics were not all about greed [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2129
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
That really wasn't the point of my post. That Being said, Hoover was the head of the Hoover Commission which was the last time the Government of the United States had a serious study and was responsible for over 7 major overhauls of government. Its something we REALLY need now!

You, obviously, were against dropping the bomb. This has been debated, and studied to exhaustion and the results are always the same. We did the right thing (sorry about that)

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#308641 - 09/26/18 02:06 AM Re: A time when politics were not all about greed [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14268
Loc: Florida
Pandora's box was opened. Perhaps sealing our fate as a species.

I think you were saying something about a time when governments weren't all about greed.

Money is power. Power is money.
Government is and always has been about greed.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308643 - 09/26/18 06:35 AM Re: A time when politics were not all about greed [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7923
Loc: North San Diego County
Dropping the bombs on Japan is like the runaway trolley problem: You pull the switch so the trolley kills 5 people instead of 30. You still killed 5 people and have to live with that for the rest of your life. Being President is a hard job.

Do you send the helicopters to get Osama Bin Laden? Carter sent the helicopters to rescue the hostages in Iran, and that was a colossal clusterfudge.

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#308657 - 09/26/18 05:35 PM Re: A time when politics were not all about greed [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14268
Loc: Florida
I don't specifically blame Truman for the first use of nuclear weapons.
He was relatively clueless about the harm that could come from them.
Nor was Hoover single handedly responsible for the The Great Depression. He was also clueless about the management capitalism requires by government.
Republicans remain clueless about the dangers of global war and feed the runaway greed of the military industrial complex in the name of national security.
At the same time they are also clueless about the dangers of capitalism gone too far. We are currently living in a second Guilded Age where the richest among us control government with the limitless money they have to spend. Greed, jgw, it's all about greed.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308660 - 09/26/18 06:02 PM Re: A time when politics were not all about greed [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2129
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I had a friend that was one of the first on site, after the bomb was dropped (actually arrested by a marine sargeant for being a traitor but MacArther fixed that one and the sargeant was no longer a sargeant. He was in charge of German capacity after that war and then was in charge of just what the bomb did. What he had which was really interesting were pictures of the Tokyo underground after the blanket bombing. Sucked out the air and thousands hiding from the bombs died of oxygen deprivation. I guess my point is dead is dead - regardless of cause. That, incidentally also happened in Germany.

My point about greed is that, while aware of power/greed, think that, now, our elected class is almost proud of their corruption and, as far as I can tell, nobody denies it. Our healthcare is a really good example of that one. We spend almost twice as much as every other industrialized nation in the world yet our "best healthcare in the world" is something like 32nd in the world and our life expectancy is going down! Basically, the money we spend has little to do with health. We also seem to be 32nd (out of 132) in the world in perceived corruption:
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info...ion-and-bribery
https://www.transparency.org/country/USA

We are not the worst but neither are we that much better. Canada, for instance, rates higher than we as not being corrupt.

Another example. When Harry Truman left gov he was not exactly well off and didn't get rich over time. Recent presidents, however, tend to get rich kinda quick - one can only wonder why and how that is? There is also the politicians that 'retire' with million dollar campaign funds which morph into personal funds, of one sort or another. The actions of congress is another indicator. Neither Republicans OR Democrats were able to pass a law forcing them that put up political ads to put their names on them even though the supremes said they could. The drug scams is another one. We, the taxpayers, pay universities to do drug research and then the drug companies get to sell them for profit (not quite that simple but close). This list is very long, troublesome, and no secret. On the other hand nobody really talks about it either. Nobody actually even wonders why, anymore - its all pretty much 'normalized' now. As far as I can tell we now have a president that ran a criminal enterprise for years is just frosting on the cake.

There was a time when we were

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#308668 - 09/27/18 12:05 AM Re: A time when politics were not all about greed [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14268
Loc: Florida
So far you aren't convincing me that government was ever less about greed. I don't care that Truman was not rich. Nor that Hoover helped him nail down a nice retirement check. Two members of the Former Presidents Club greedily sucking at the government teat. Nothing new there.

Everything government does is about greed. Not just our government...all of them. Throughout history.

Today's republican party is the very embodiment of greed. But so was yesterday's republican party. And so will be tomorrow's.

Democrats only slightly less. Humans are greedy beasts and the very worst of them go into public service.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#308672 - 09/27/18 04:30 AM Re: A time when politics were not all about greed [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7923
Loc: North San Diego County
Harry Truman had some serious scruples about not taking jobs or doing endorsements that would be undignified for a former President. But he did sell his memoirs to Life Magazine for $600,000! That's like $5.6 million in today's dollars. So he was pretty well fixed actually once the Life checks started coming in. Apparently Ike got a tax break and his book money was treated as capital gains, being taxed at only 20%. Major scandal! Truman tried to do the same but the law had changed, so he just got 6 year income averaging deal by receiving payments in installments. Remember the top brackets were huge then. Still, he must have received almost a million per year, which would have kept him in the top bracket.

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#308683 - 09/27/18 09:37 PM Re: A time when politics were not all about greed [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2129
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Truman did sell that book for 600,000.00 and and also got to pay something like 90% of that in taxes leaving him with less than 60 grand. I remember when they were actually taxing the rich. I understand about greed but I also understand when the greedy own the politicians. There was a time when that was not the case and they paid dearly for being rich. The interesting thing is that, back in the 40's/50's the rich paid for being rich because everybody thought they should. Truman vetoed tax decreases 2 times. it was a time when we actually paid our bills. Saint Reagan actually increased taxes to "pay the bills".

To say all government is all about greed and little else is not exactly right when historically taking a look. The super rich got to pay super taxes. Now they do not. I can remember when one of the super rich complained because he was paying less taxes than his secretary, percentage wise.

Here are a couple of sites that may be of interest:
http://www.presidentprofiles.com/General...nd-pension.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/02/opinion/02iht-edjacoby.4775315.html

Just saying...........

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