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#308739 - 10/01/18 06:22 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Irked]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16845
Loc: Florida
Quote:
no one in the Democratic Party seems to have studied anything like rhetoric, communications, marketing, even law. How hard is it to sculpt a winning message against what the Republican Party has been doing to the political process and the judiciary?

Day in and day out the press sculpts the message, thousands upon thousands of anti-Trump anti-Republican headlines, newsreels, reports, interviews, stories with graphs and statistics. Republicans are assailed from all sides all day every day. All to no avail.

Voters have chosen sides and nothing will sway them to change. Conservatives are completely unaffected by facts.





Edited by Greger (10/01/18 06:23 PM)
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#308741 - 10/01/18 06:37 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9830
Loc: North San Diego County
What's with Trump respecting the FBI all of a sudden? Is that just so he can tweet about how corrupt they are when they do their job and return a Kavanaugh report that is damaging?

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#308744 - 10/01/18 08:35 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7203
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am beginning to consider a better method to approach voters is not through re-litigation of a conservative laundry list of indignities, but through messaging on your agenda. What can Democrats bring to the table which will move the country forward.

There is no point (as many in this and other threads have typed) in trying to convince TrumpZombies through logical discourse of anything.
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#308749 - 10/01/18 10:14 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16845
Loc: Florida
The message is...
Universal healthcare.
Subsidized college education.
A living wage.
Clean energy.
Investment in infrastructure.
Keeping Social Security solvent.
Legalizing weed.
Immigration reform.

Does there really need to be a message? These things generally speak for themselves. Every Democrat already knows this is what we are aiming for. No message needed. What's needed is votes.
_________________________
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#308750 - 10/02/18 12:40 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 627
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
I would make one change to your list, replace Legalizing weed to Legalizing Medical weed.
_________________________
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#308759 - 10/02/18 04:50 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ujest Shurly]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9830
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Legalizing weed [versus] Legalizing Medical weed


Not much difference, really. Weed cures insomnia, so anybody can claim a medical need. It also may be the preventative treatment for Alzheimer's Disease, so anybody can claim they want it to prevent that.

In California, anybody can grow 6 plants and keep a pound at home. Get a medical card and you can grow whatever you need, and keep whatever you grow.

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#308762 - 10/02/18 07:50 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16845
Loc: Florida

Shurly, I know your primary objection is potheads driving. The number of those on the highway is not going to change with legalization.
The only thing that changes if you legalize weed is that people don't go to jail for possessing it. They might still go to jail for driving under the influence.
Are you honestly in favor of people going to jail for having a bag of weed in their pocket? Bearing in mind that people of color are ten times as likely to get arrested than whites?

Should a prescription be required to use alcohol? If weed is evil then alcohol is the very devil.

Besides, this is a bi-partisan juggernaut that cannot be stopped. Once it comes off the Schedule One list it's all over. You and JeffBo Sessions can't stop it. I think I can safely predict that the next Democratic congress will remove it from Schedule One.

Everything else on that list is just as inevitable.
In the end, liberals always win. Because we're right.


Edited by Greger (10/02/18 08:02 PM)
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#308764 - 10/02/18 11:41 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Ujest Shurly]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
I would make one change to your list, replace Legalizing weed to Legalizing Medical weed.


We now know how the so called "medical marijuana" game gets played, and it's basically a means of punishing medical users and making them second class citizens.

Medical users all over the country are losing professional licenses
law, medical, you name it...some states are even attempting to deny DRIVER'S LICENSES. They are denied the right to own firearms, pursue professional certifications, teaching jobs.
Medical users are also losing their health insurance in some states as well.

The answer to worries about marijuana use on the road is simple...it is NOT ALLOWED, no different than alcohol. It is a DUI, same as alcohol.
Buzzed drivers have been getting busted the same as drunk drivers for decades. These days the technology is advancing faster than alcohol detection.

Sorry but this so called "medical marijuana" scheme is just a way to turn medical users into pariahs.
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#308772 - 10/03/18 12:43 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17387
Brett Kavanaugh is damaged goods, and most of the damage he did to himself. No rational Senator should vote for him, period. I Know Brett Kavanaugh, but I Wouldn’t Confirm Him Ben Wittes (Atlantic, subscription). That he may still get confirmed is an indictment, and I use that term advisedly, of the process, the standards (or lack thereof), and the body considering his nomination. Mitch McConnell may be the worst majority leader in history (it's hard to say, because the history is sparse) because of the malicious damage he has done to our institutions. He is an evil, soulless, person. He has done, probably irreparable, damage to the Senate, the courts and the presidency. Brett Kavanaugh's elevation would be his "crowning" achievement.

A Supreme Court Justice should, to the extent humanly possible, be "above reproach". As has been written since its creation, the court's power comes from its moral suasion - it speaks for the people, but has neither the power of the purse, nor coercive authority. It needs to be seen as a neutral arbiter, a non-partisan institution, to be effective. Confidence in the Supreme Court has waned, and Kavanaugh is the least popular nominee since polling has addressed the question. It took a decade (and the appointment of Kagan and Sotomayor) for the court's reputation to recover from Thomas's elevation. It may not recover from Kavanaugh's.

To restore the court's credibility, Kavanaugh must be rejected. If Democrats regain the majority in the Senate, they should insist on a consensus nominee - Like Merrick Garland was - rather than a partisan. That likely means no one on Trump's current list, and might require return of the filibuster. The least supported nominees have been Alito 58, Gorsuch 54, and Thomas 52, the most partisan appointees. All Dem nominees have been super-majority approvals, as was Roberts. That should be the standard. The test for a Supreme Court Justice should not be "is he/she acceptable?" but, the best qualified. Being free of scandal, a reputation for probity, and free of partisan taint should be givens. Kavanaugh had none of those qualities, and questions of integrity are paramount (again he fails).

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#308773 - 10/03/18 03:38 PM Re: The End of the Independent Judiciary [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6517
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Brett Kavanaugh is damaged goods, and most of the damage he did to himself. No rational Senator should vote for him, period. I Know Brett Kavanaugh, but I Wouldn’t Confirm Him Ben Wittes (Atlantic, subscription). That he may still get confirmed is an indictment, and I use that term advisedly, of the process, the standards (or lack thereof), and the body considering his nomination. Mitch McConnell may be the worst majority leader in history (it's hard to say, because the history is sparse) because of the malicious damage he has done to our institutions. He is an evil, soulless, person. He has done, probably irreparable, damage to the Senate, the courts and the presidency. Brett Kavanaugh's elevation would be his "crowning" achievement.

A Supreme Court Justice should, to the extent humanly possible, be "above reproach". As has been written since its creation, the court's power comes from its moral suasion - it speaks for the people, but has neither the power of the purse, nor coercive authority. It needs to be seen as a neutral arbiter, a non-partisan institution, to be effective. Confidence in the Supreme Court has waned, and Kavanaugh is the least popular nominee since polling has addressed the question. It took a decade (and the appointment of Kagan and Sotomayor) for the court's reputation to recover from Thomas's elevation. It may not recover from Kavanaugh's.

To restore the court's credibility, Kavanaugh must be rejected. If Democrats regain the majority in the Senate, they should insist on a consensus nominee - Like Merrick Garland was - rather than a partisan. That likely means no one on Trump's current list, and might require return of the filibuster. The least supported nominees have been Alito 58, Gorsuch 54, and Thomas 52, the most partisan appointees. All Dem nominees have been super-majority approvals, as was Roberts. That should be the standard. The test for a Supreme Court Justice should not be "is he/she acceptable?" but, the best qualified. Being free of scandal, a reputation for probity, and free of partisan taint should be givens. Kavanaugh had none of those qualities, and questions of integrity are paramount (again he fails).


I only hope, that once he is confirmed, and takes his place on the bench, he takes revenge upon your party for the smear campaign leveled against him. Sometimes, payback is not only delicious, but required!

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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