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Historic Corruption
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#309004 - 10/21/18 07:34 AM Re: Voters [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
You are assuming that the employees of the small businesses Walmart killed were making higher wages, with absolutely zero evidence. I doubt they were. And why would you think they were better off working for small business owners with no HR policies other than "do it my way or you're fired", when such policies were very likely criminal or abusive in many cases?

I've actually worked for very small businesses and for large ones, and the small ones were MUCH MUCH worse. Very much a dictatorship, and I would especially have hated to be a woman working for those a-holes. At least a larger corporation usually has some written policies and tries to avoid abusing employees for fear of lawsuits.

Maybe you are thinking of union jobs? Those were not really a factor in the average small business for a very long time, long before Walmart. If anything, those employees are better off now because they can buy stuff at Walmart instead of paying much more to their former bosses.

I just looked up some data on what retail employees get at various big chains, and Walmart is not the lowest:

What they pay

Of course, there is no data on what Mom & Pop's hardware was paying.

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#309006 - 10/21/18 12:18 PM Re: Voters [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8912
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
I have no doubt Walmart looked at the ROI and went for it. If I had to bet, there was a tax subsidy involved that helped sweeten the pot.
Walmart does a lot of crappy things that are made with ROI in mind beyond the next quarter. Unfair labor practices, tax abatements, externalizing the labor costs onto state and local tax payers, environmental degradation are just a few of the negative aspects of Walmarts drive to create excess surplus for its board and shareholders.
I stand by my analogy.
My apologies, you may like Walmart for other reasons than being a shareholder. Perhaps it's how they manage to roll back prices and provide you with savings everyday?

Walmart is a machine that serves the desires of our culture very well.

Just take a blue pill and relax...
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#309007 - 10/21/18 12:22 PM Re: Voters [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8912
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#309009 - 10/21/18 05:50 PM Re: Voters [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
Just saying: If working for Walmart was so bad, everybody would quit. Working a Walmart job is better than no job. I'd rather work there than at McDonalds and I HAVE worked at McDonalds. In that same retail space, Costco looks like the best but it's not that much better. Working in retail sucks, but everybody has to start somewhere.

Stay in school, kiddies: Go for STEM or business, if you want to have a good job. Do it at a your state college or university so you don't end up a debt slave.

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#309011 - 10/21/18 06:17 PM Re: Voters [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2194
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have always wondered about the Hate Wallmart movement. I live in a small community of about 20,000 souls. We have a Walmart. Two people, who used to work for me are now the manager and assistant manager. Walmart has always, as far as I can tell, advances from within whenever they can. They pay untrained, off the street, new employees not much. This is because they are not worth much until they do get trained. The ones that resist training get laid off. I have always thought that was probably the way it should be. I have often wondered if the incapacities of workers new to working are worth less because of a failure in our schools. It used to be that High School, for instance, had classes for the students to get a bit on training on what happens next, ie. civics, home skills (boiling eggs, running a toaster, dealing with a check book, carpenter training, auto shop, machinist training, etc). Most of that is not there anymore. Now its all about college and little else. This is, I think, one of the problems we are having with not enough electricians, carpenters, plumbers, police, etc.

Then there is the meme about Walmart destroying local businesses. I have seen some close after Walmart arrives. I also noted that those that did close did not do what local businesses are supposed to - provide service. These businesses didn't even take time out of their really important stuff to say hello to somebody coming in to do business. My wife started, and ran a jewelry store for years. She did that because she was not able to find a jewelry store, in town, that would actually greet a customer when they walked into their store, she survived, and made a profit, for something like 40 years. Local stores are expected to beat the crap out of out-of-towners when it comes to customer care. If they don't/can't do that then they deserve to fail. When they fail they tend to blame it all on Walmart and I don't buy it.

Walmart is a big organization. Not unlike most big organizations they have all sorts of problems but their personnel practices, I think, are not the top of that list of complaints.

I also realize that there are exceptions to just about everything claimed above, sorry about that...........

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#309012 - 10/21/18 07:32 PM Re: Voters [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1158
I still remember the wallmart battles of the eighties when they spread, locust like, across the country with their business model of externalizer costs, gaining tax abatements and forcing the off shoring of manufacturing to over seas factories.
There was also a small court settlement over sexual discrimination in promotion and hiring a short while ago.
Then their is the tax avoidance schemes that walmart uses to avoid paying into the system for.
There are plenty of reasons why I hate walmart but for starters JGW :
400 million memes



76 billion more to keep em company

That's just the tax avoidance that small businesses can't take advantage of. I suppose a warm customer greeting could neutralize that unfair advantage.

The list of large corporate abuses is long and has contributed greatly to our sad state of affairs. Is it any wonder that facism has marched in lock step with corporate globalism?

I do see good sales on toilet tissue this week though so maybe it's not all bad?


Edited by chunkstyle (10/21/18 07:33 PM)

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#309013 - 10/21/18 08:14 PM Re: Voters [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13409
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
I still remember the wallmart battles of the eighties when they spread, locust like, across the country with their business model of externalizer costs, gaining tax abatements and forcing the off shoring of manufacturing to over seas factories.
There was also a small court settlement over sexual discrimination in promotion and hiring a short while ago.
Then their is the tax avoidance schemes that walmart uses to avoid paying into the system for.
There are plenty of reasons why I hate walmart but for starters JGW :
400 million memes


A lot of that was outrageous but at least back in the old days of Sam Walton, even though Wal-Mart was the 800 pound gorilla, he was OUR 800 pound gorilla. Wal-Mart prided itself on selling American made products.

Wal-Mart is perhaps the single biggest or one of the biggest reasons so much American manufacturing went bye-bye, because even though a fair amount of it was on the wane by the 1980's, when Sam died, his kids did a complete one-eighty and started their Made in China juggernaut.

I could forgive a lot if Wal-Mart had remained the champion of US manufacturing. The kids clearly did not share the old man's love of "MADE IN USA".
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#309017 - 10/21/18 10:04 PM Re: Voters [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14415
Loc: Florida
Quote:
corporate globalism


Such as it is, it's the era we live in.
There have been worse times to live through. Probably will be again.
Might not be long.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#309020 - 10/21/18 11:24 PM Re: Voters [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1158
Agreed.
As long as the man making over $300/hr and pays no taxes can convince the guy making 30/hr paying all of the taxes that his problem is the lazy people making 10/hr and more than likely not the same skin color to boot.


Edited by chunkstyle (10/21/18 11:25 PM)

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#309022 - 10/22/18 03:52 PM Re: Voters [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
Chunk, you have encapsulated the problem well. There is a line, spoken by John Dickenson, in the musical1776, that puts it this way: "Don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor." The power of self-delusion is strong.

The problem and history of "The Wal-Martizaton of America" is real. I agree with the sentiment that if Sam Walton's "Made in the USA" approach had maintained, Wal-Mart would have a different impact - but it also wouldn't be nearly as big and profitable. The kids followed Lenin's prescription by outsourcing the exploitation to poorer countries - not that Lenin saw this as a virtue, just a reality. (For the record, I think that Marx and Lenin were HUGHLY wrong in their approach, but some of their analyses of economic circumstances was, and is, spot on.)

Now that we're here, though, what do we do about it? In my view, we need leaders who are clear-eyed about realities and focused on the best future for all of us, not just their cronies and fellow travelers. The best chance of finding them is getting rid of the old thinkers standing in their way.

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