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#309861 - 12/14/18 05:03 PM Re: What Left? [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15479
Loc: Florida
And let me chime in with the rest of the Centrists that third parties don't work. Theodore Roosevelt proved it, George Wallace proved it, Ross Perot proved it, Ralph Nader proved it..."this time" wont be different.

I think our best bet is to look at the dubious success of the Tea Party. Split the party from within and replace the moderates with the likes of Ocasio-Cortez. This is possible, doable, and currently underway.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#309863 - 12/14/18 06:08 PM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2568
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Again - I vote for Democratic candidates, I do that, basically, because I simply don't agree with them Running under the Republican banner. For me its that simple. There was a time, years ago, when I would sometimes vote for a Republican I liked but those have dried up and blown away. As I have said, again and again, we currently have a binary election system where you are on one side or the other - there is no middle ground and quibble insofar as being picky about candidates. We all know what the other side is so picking is pretty simple for me. This is even true of local elections. Even there the choice is stark.

Democratic Social Democrats are simply a group trying to distinguish themselves from plain old Democrats. I have nothing against that. There are LOTS of groups within the Democratic umbrella. There used to be the same thing for Republicans but, no more, they kiss the Jackass ring or they are not Republican and that also seems pretty simple to me. Ranking on, for instance, the Democratic party is, basically, not only a waste of time but actually threatens. On the other hand there will be some who think that the current election thing is not binary and just cannot vote Democratic, cannot vote Republican, cannot vote at all. These folks are just as responsible for Jackass politics as those who actually voted for them, as far as I am concerned.

I keep thinking that one should list reasons for not voting Republican. I have, however, come the conclusion that if folks haven't figured it out yet that is unlikely to happen. Instead we now have Jackass actually threatening revolt, by his base, should he get deposed for any reason. Interesting times?

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#309874 - 12/15/18 01:44 AM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8780
Loc: North San Diego County
I had a little epiphany today. I realized that the most important political idea is that you shouldn't let people who hate government and want it to fail, run the government. Right there is the basic problem. Republicans want government to fail, so they do everything in their power to see that it does.

Now I understand that some (most?) of us want something or several things the government does to fail. But then again, the vast majority of us are not anarchists enough to want everything to fail. That's extremism (right or left), and only a tiny fraction of us are that extreme. Most of those people just leave and go to some other country more to their liking. The few that remain do stuff like blow up day care centers in Oklahoma City or run for Congress as a Republican.

There is a certain attraction to the Republican Party for outlaws of all sorts, because that is the Party of Less Government. Specifically because those people (like Trump) feel like the Government should not interfere with their actions, even if their actions hurt other people. This is why so many Republican office holders get into legal trouble. It's in their very nature.

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#309885 - 12/15/18 07:24 PM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14319
Loc: Whittier, California
When Republicans talk about government being a failure, they aren't complaining, they're boasting. It's not a bug, it's a feature!
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#309892 - 12/15/18 11:16 PM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8780
Loc: North San Diego County
True, but they should be right up front with it when they campaign. Like "Here's a list of government functions I plan to destroy."

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#309899 - 12/16/18 07:17 PM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2568
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think the current administration has been pretty clear. It has, virtually without exception, put incompetent criminals in charge of all agencies. They are all, right now, being investigated and the Dems are sure to go after them as well. The latest was the guy in charge of the Department of the Interior (Zinke) quit as soon as his investigation was announced. Sticking to their plan, get rid of any and all regulations this is just the latest.

Remember, good conservatives, hate ALL regulation. If it regulates, its bad, and should be shutdown or, preferably, looted for private and industrial gain first. Apparently Zinke has stuck to that plan like glue.

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#310143 - 01/02/19 07:46 PM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1748
Tell me again about Pelosi's bonafides as a progressive?
'Strangling progressives in the fiscal crib'


Edited by chunkstyle (01/02/19 07:47 PM)

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#310145 - 01/02/19 08:42 PM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17102
Two things: I don't like pay-go as a concept, as it does hamper good government and is a "conservative" idea with little empirical basis; but I do understand the political strategy. Pelosi will be Speaker for two years. She wants to make sure that all proposed legislation is "workable" - and that includes being resistant to conservative attacks. In another thread I suggested that the Democrats push responsible, "good government" legislation, early and often. Pay-go, as a strategy, does that. Realistically, Democrats are not going to get any legislation through that doesn't pay for itself. Also, realistically, in two years, if the Senate and White House change hands, the rule will change, too. By then, I expect, we'll have a new Speaker. She'll need to be able to explain the new rule.

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#310149 - 01/02/19 09:50 PM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1748
This is more of a continuation of neoliberal market policy that captured the democratic party starting with Dollar Bill.
It's an obvious break with Keynes and the old Democratic party from the past.
Austerity is certainly a popular Third Way political ideology causing much happiness with the top income filers. The rest of the western world? Not so much.

Green New deal: Nope
Medicare for All: Naw
Colledge Tuition: Sorry bout yer luck

A victory for the socially liberal, fiscally conservative portion of the party.

Another stark example of how far right the Democratic party has gone. It has no ideas other than a perpetual crouch over offending republicans. Gutless really. The best lack all conviction, etc..


Edited by chunkstyle (01/02/19 09:54 PM)

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#310165 - 01/03/19 10:12 AM Re: What Left? [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14319
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: jgw
Instead we now have Jackass actually threatening revolt, by his base, should he get deposed for any reason. Interesting times?


That's because Jackass is not a party, or an ideology, or a president.
He is a DRUG, and 43% of the country is now addicted to that drug.
What does the drug do? It makes them feel like they're "sticking it to the libtards".
Who are the libtards? Anybody who would deny them a fix of the drug that they are addicted to.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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