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#309042 - 10/24/18 01:25 AM Trump's 72 page manifesto
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
I just read the 72 page manifesto where the White House accuses most Americans of being Communists...

The moment you start a 72 page manifesto with references to Karl Marx, you've as much as told almost everyone in America that if they don't bow to the Fuehrer, they must truly be communist enemies.

Waxing hysterical on tropes about state owned means of production is anathema to most Americans because we have zero frame of reference to pure state socialism. No one wants that, so no matter how loud you yell it, people outside the Republican Party are not and don't want to be what your whitepaper describes.
They just want their capitalism to be molded in ways which incentivize it to work more for them, and we already tried that, and it worked in the past.
Someone needs to tell Stephen Miller to put down his poison pen, and the crack pipe.

UNDER SEIGE my rosy red ass.

They could have submitted a REAL report.
They could have done a nice neat dissertation in which they speak about the trade-offs between some kind of universal healthcare system versus what we have now.

Nope! Instead they set up about two dozen ginormous STRAW MEN and then proceeded to beat the ever loving s*** out of them, all while implying that any American who even committed the thoughtcrime of considering any aspect of such systems might as well be contributing to the downfall of our country and paying homage to the Hammer and Sickle of Communism.

No one is proposing a Cuban-style system, or even a UK National Health Service model, even though that latter resembles our own VA Healthcare System. And no one wants what the USSR or Red China had. We’re not out to confiscate the assets of one-sixth of the nation’s economy or dictate how anyone gets to live or die.
For them to commit even one wasted sentence on that crap is nonsense, but worse than that, it’s broad brush knee jerk reactionary character assassination of every man or woman who has ever struggled with the decision to keep food on the table or pay a hospital bill.

Simply put, the Trump administration wants you to know that they hate you for the crime of being too poor to afford your healthcare, and you deserve nothing less than being cast down among the Stalinist Sodomites for daring to want a break on your medical costs.

The awful awful horrible terrible scaramungous “socialism” some have proposed is to perhaps extend a Medicare type program from seniors to everyone.
That might not even be the best approach but it’s significantly less socialist than the nationalized system in the UK.

Nope, questioning the excessive costs of our healthcare now is tantamount to flirting with Uncle Joe Stalin and Karl Marx.

Someone dig up one of those old Ronald Reagan LP records where he warns of the dangers of socialized medicine.

Or better yet, time to put on another record, Bob Dylan’s
“Talking John Birch Society Blues”.

This fearmongering bullsh!t is now starting to piss me off to the point where I find it difficult to maintain this so called civility.
When the White House starts accusing hard working Americans like myself and my family of being closet communists, I start questioning their sanity, and their morals...especially their morals.
They know that they are flat out lying, they just don't even care anymore.
They've crossed a line.
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD

#309046 - 10/24/18 08:07 AM Re: Trump's 72 page manifesto [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10128
Loc: North San Diego County
The truly weird thing is that Trump seems to be in love with Putin, former head of the KGB in the communist USSR. But he's telling us we are communists for wanting to extend Medicare? That just doesn't make any sense.

#309050 - 10/24/18 05:57 PM Re: Trump's 72 page manifesto [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17403
A 72 page manifesto.... whelp, you know Trump hasn't read it...

But, it demonstrates the qualities of the people he has allowed to infest his administration.

#309057 - 10/24/18 10:45 PM Re: Trump's 72 page manifesto [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
jgw Offline

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3453
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I just looked at that thing. Its a simple extension of "Lets scare the sh*t out of everybody" and little else. Nobody want to have gov start taking over business as far as I know. The healthcare thing is simply reasonable. The way its going we gotta do something before then entire country is bankrupt and to fix it we have to start to REALLY regulate everything to do with healthcare. Its the only way to actually survive. Others have done this and so can we. A close example is Canada. They have tried to demonize that system but just goto Canada and ask around. You will not find a single person who wants to live with our health system. Its also interesting that the Canadians are now actually living longer than we - do, probably in large part, because they have universal healthcare and they actually get taken care of.

I wonder if they are going to try, again, to privatize some of our own 'socialized' endeavors, like the police, firemen, libraries, etc. They are already trying to privatize our system of education (every district DeVoss has meddled in has got worse). For healthcare it just gets more simple. Companies working, or producing equipment, in the healthcare field can be allowed say, a 10% profit, no more than that. I ran 1 company for years on a 10% profit and nobody starved so I know that can be done. Healthcare is something everybody needs, at one time or another, so EVERYBODY can pay for it through taxes, just like the police and firemen rely on taxes to support them. Its gonna be up to Gov to make sure the costs stay in line and care is provided.

I just read that Norway and Sweden are close to the top of nations having millionaires is concerned. Norway and Sweden are what the Republicans would call a socialized nations. I wonder how they would parse that one.

#309068 - 10/25/18 10:18 PM Re: Trump's 72 page manifesto [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17403
I've tried, a couple of times now, to get through this drivel. Your descriptions, so far, have been apt. If this is what passes for "economic analysis" in the administration, it explains why we are in such trouble. Serious economists have looked at the impact of generalizing (providing a government support system) for economic drains, such as healthcare, employment insurance, and such, versus leaving the burden in place and reach unsurprisingly different conclusions. (e.g., Universal Health Care in Different Countries, Pros and Cons of Each; Universal Health Care: The Affordable Dream) It helps, of course, that the paper starts with a ridiculous premise, "the most highly socialist cases, which are typically
agricultural economies, such as Maoist China, Cuba, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR)." From that premise, you can guarantee that everything that follows is a foregone conclusion, and not reality (or "empirically") based.

#309071 - 10/26/18 02:38 AM Re: Trump's 72 page manifesto [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10128
Loc: North San Diego County
Jesus, let them make 20%: It would be far better than what we have now. Drug companies have a loophole you could drive a truck through. They create a new drug (or just do the studies on an old one) and then they can charge anything they want for their patent period, and charge any royalty they want for anybody else to make it, and Medicare is not allowed to dicker.

It's a total violation of patent law: Patents exist so people can enjoy the benefits of new inventions, while paying the inventors a reasonable amount. So Idec charges $65,000 per year for their MS drug that has been around for many decades and used for psoriasis, and cost them about $25 to make a years worth. We don't need price controls. We need a patent law that says royalties can be no more than 10 times what it costs to make the drug. Then generic competition would drive the price down to something reasonable.


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