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#309299 - 11/08/18 06:00 PM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: Kaine]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14366
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Kaine
I am concerned that he may never leave office. I think that this election has helped Trump feel even more emboldened than before. I just have this gut-feeling that he may try to make himself king through martial law somehow. I don't know if congress could stop that or not. I am absolutly more scared now than before the election.

Fear not citizen Kaine! He's an old man. By 2024 he'll be nodding out and drooling. He can't manage a full time work schedule even now. I know a lot about being an old man and even though Trump is having the time of his life right now he's going to want to retreat more and more to his chambers to count his gold and fondle his concubines(and sleep).

This idea of martial law and presidents refusing to step down rolls around with every administration. Bush didn't, Obama didn't, Trump won't.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#309301 - 11/08/18 06:13 PM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7997
Loc: North San Diego County
Whitaker's appointment is illegal: He has never been confirmed by the Senate for a leadership position at Justice. The acting AG is actually Rosenstein, until the Senate confirms somebody.

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#309307 - 11/08/18 06:50 PM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16303
I'm still reviewing this issue, but here is a basic description of the Vacancies Act. A question arises about Whitaker's qualification, but there is another question (recently decided unfavorably by the SCOTUS) when there is a specific statute for a particular office, whether the Vacancies Act even applies. The Vacancies Act: A Legal Overview (Congressional Research Office)

It appears that the basis for Whitaker's appointment is that "the
President can select a senior “officer or employee” of the same executive agency, if that employee served in that agency for at least 90 days during the year preceding the vacancy and is paid at a
rate equivalent to at least a GS-15 on the federal pay scale." It appears that Whitaker is at that pay scale (SES I).

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#309311 - 11/08/18 10:24 PM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
What bothers me about the appointment of Whitiker as AAG and in charge of Mueller investigation is he has without seeing any evidence determined there was no collusion and the investigation should be over.

They should rename his title as Whitiker the Magnificent, head of Office of Psychic Divination.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#309313 - 11/09/18 01:03 AM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16303
Trump’s Appointment of the Acting Attorney General Is Unconstitutional (NYT Opinion, Subscription) I found this discussion illuminating, and persuasive. In essence, George Conway and Neal Katyal argue that the Constitution's "Appointments Clause" (Article II, Section 2, Clause 2) requires that principal officers of the United States must be nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate under its “Advice and Consent” powers. A "Principal Officer" is one that reports directly to the President, usually cabinet officials. Since that describes the Attorney General, the Constitution's Appointments Clause prevents Whitaker's appointment, especially as there are two currently available seniors who do (The Deputy Attorney General and The Solicitor General). The Vacancy Act is only applicable, it is argued, to lesser agency heads (such as the FBI Director, who reports to the Attorney General). I am persuaded.

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#309318 - 11/09/18 02:32 AM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14366
Loc: Florida
Details. That argument might rage for weeks. The AAG will have plenty of time to wreak havoc on things before Trump is required to fire him and go through the regular channels. It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission.

Like water off a ducks back.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#309323 - 11/09/18 04:19 AM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16303
At an earlier point in my career, I was much more steeped in constitutional issues, so my thinking through these issues takes a little longer. I think, greger, you are absolutely right that Trump is inclined to do more than he should to see what he can get away with, then he has the pattern of using that as a complaint for his base.

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#309324 - 11/09/18 05:05 AM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7997
Loc: North San Diego County
On the other hand, the Senate could confirm him post haste.

But I'm not so worried about Mueller getting fired now that we will have a Democratic House. All the committees can take up where Mueller left off and even subpoena all of Mueller's info. Their findings will be completely transparent and not compiled in a report the AG can sit on.

Trump's troubles are just getting started. It's going to be fun!
Wouldn't be great if Mueller ran for President and primaried Trump in 2020?

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#309370 - 11/13/18 05:09 PM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16303
Just to round out the legal background of this discussion, a third reason why Whitaker is not a legal candidate for acting attorney general is 28 USC §508 which specifically addresses attorney general vacancy:
Quote:
Vacancies
(a) In case of a vacancy in the office of Attorney General, or of his absence or disability, the Deputy Attorney General may exercise all the duties of that office, and for the purpose of section 3345 of title 5 the Deputy Attorney General is the first assistant to the Attorney General.

Maryland has now raised this issue in a current lawsuit, so we may have an answer soon.

To recap, Whitaker is not qualified to assume the role of acting A.G. under the Constitution or federal law (28 U.S.C.
§508), And would be required to recuse himself from o overseeing Mueller under ethics rules and the Rules of Professional Conduct governing lawyers. He hasn't done so.

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#309372 - 11/13/18 05:57 PM Re: RED ALERT: Obstruction of Justice on Overdrive! [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6541
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
the Deputy Attorney General may exercise all the duties of that office

I see 2 (two) possible interpretations of that clause. Please be aware I do not know the context of legalese etc.

1. The DAG MAY exercise, meaning he is a possible choice to assume the duties of the AG.

2. The DAG MAY exercise, meaning he has a choice to conduct all the business of the AG during a vacancy.

While I MAY see two possibilities, the reader should try reading putting different emphasis on the word MAY, and see if it is just me or is there some ambiguity of language.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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