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#309300 - 11/08/18 06:06 PM Re: the economy [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
Homeostasis means more than stability. It means the system tends to be self-correcting. Excesses happen for a variety of reasons, and then a backlash from another part of the system corrects the excess. Usually over-corrects, but that excess is soon corrected again, etc.

In every age so far, the rich get richer. You want to do something about it? Have a French Revolution with heads rolling. Or just change the income tax structure back to Ike's model of 91% top rates. There is a lot of stuff to do when Democrats run the government again. But that just pushes the homeostatic equilibrium in that direction. It does not change it's fundamental nature.

Ignoring crime at the highest levels does attempt to break the system. The backlash is going to be very large. Keep it up and important people will die. The current Republican strategy pushes us towards the French Revolution correction.

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#309305 - 11/08/18 06:35 PM Re: the economy [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1158
Or perhaps it will go something like Yugoslavoa or Rowanda. My bet is we get Balkanized. Backhoe ditches in back fields, partisan units, etc...


Edited by chunkstyle (11/08/18 06:38 PM)

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#309306 - 11/08/18 06:45 PM Re: the economy [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1158
I'm intrigued by the U.K.'s labor manifesto that will regulate the private ownership of the wealth that is generated from corporations. They are advocating for a minimum % of equities to be owned by employees, as a compensation over time, and will give them a voice on the corporate governance of their work place. As Richard Wolf has advocated: "democratize the enterprise"
There are other ideas out there with a few put forward by our own representatives but getting almost no corporate owned media coverage. That narrowing of ideas and setting arbitrary boundaries on conversation thing.

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#309309 - 11/08/18 09:32 PM Re: the economy [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
I've made this point at various times over the years, but it is appropriate here: corporations are a creation of government and can therefore be regulated in virtually any way one wants. Obviously (I think), that doesn't mean that one can simply appropriate their assets without compensation, but it does mean that limitations can be placed on organizational structure and compensation schemes. A percentage of worker ownership, or limitation on executive pay, for example, are entirely legal and reasonable. They are, literally, the cost of doing business (as a corporation).

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#309326 - 11/09/18 05:28 AM Re: the economy [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
I might point out that a great many US corporations have Employee Stock Ownership Plans that create employee ownership to some extent. Those stock holders can attend corporate shareholder meetings and propose items for shareholders to vote on.

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#309328 - 11/09/18 03:09 PM Re: the economy [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1158
Yeah PIA, I realize that. The guy who delivers my shops material gets some of that. I've worked at companies that had that on offer thru HR.
I believe the Labor Party is proposing something modeled after the Meidner Plan proposed in Sweden in the 1970's.
It goes much further than a company offering a simple stock buy in plan.


Edited by chunkstyle (11/09/18 03:22 PM)

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#309334 - 11/10/18 03:50 AM Re: the economy [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
Of course, most financial advisers will tell you to sell all your employer stock immediately: It's very dumb to have both your job and a lot of investments in the same company. If the company fails or just takes a big hit, your stock could drop a lot in value AND you could get laid off at the same time.

Happened more than once to me.

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#309338 - 11/10/18 02:19 PM Re: the economy [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
I am VERY MUCH in favor of cooperative ownership. That is why, for example, I buy Chobani Chobani workers get ownership stake that could make them millionaires (USA Today). What the employees do with their stocks is up to them. The key is, creating a stake in the corporation, and a method for the workers to have a direct (and enforceable) impact on company management.

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#309345 - 11/11/18 04:25 AM Re: the economy [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Chobani

Not to mention their Greek Yogurt is terrific.

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#309479 - 11/20/18 08:13 PM Re: the economy [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2194
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Today the stock market removed any increases for 2018 and 2017 will be following soon. I would suggest that everybody "national debt coming due" to see what this means. Basically, we are headed for disaster. by 2020 we will be in the middle of a serious downturn in the economy I think. Its interesting, most Republican administrations can last through 2 administrations before failure happens but, it seems, our beloved leader, the donkey, will fail before his first is through. Then, of course, the tax and spend Dems will have to, yet again, bail it all out, whilst never telling anybody that the Republicans have done it yet again <sigh>.

I have said it before, and will repeat, This one is going to be a Doozy. I am also getting concerned about the US Dollar. Right now its up but, with what is going on, its also likely to flounder and we will be back to "buy gold!" (that one is starting right now and might be right).

On last repeat, do NOT try and time this market! It rarely works and, in this environment...........

I thought I would add why I keep on about people timing the market. I have a LOT of friends who do this sort of thing and they invariably screw it up and end up losing big bucks. What seems to happen is that the market is falling and the talking heads start noticing and talking about utter failure of the economy, everybody will lose everything, etc. This tends to panic. You will rarely hear something like; "What goes up will also go down and what goes down will also go up" which, for most of this stuff is a simple fact. I realize that its nerve wracking but it remains a kindova fact.

The panic always seems to hit at the bottom and so folks bail and never get back in and live with their loss. Its just painful to watch folks do that.


Edited by jgw (11/22/18 11:08 PM)

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