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#309582 - 11/28/18 07:49 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6979
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
perjury trap

While one may entertain the speculation SP Mueller is so devious he would waylay unsuspecting interviewees, I suspect the reality is SP Mueller simply allowed Corsi, Manafort, et al a blank canvas to paint their story. If they lied, it was by their own hand, unprompted by SP Mueller.

Now one may suppose the "trap" was to allow these slugs a choice in telling the narrative their way.

Corsi has lied so much, he has forgotten which lie he is telling.

Lock him up
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#309583 - 11/28/18 09:45 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: Ken Condon]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15803
Loc: Florida

Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
Itís too bad that Mueller's hands are tied regarding Trumps finances. It's my understanding that his directive is only to determine if Trump et al worked with the Russians during his presidential campaign. And nothing regarding his finances. Is this true? I am unclear on that.

What most Trump detractors really want to know is how deeply he is in bed with Russian and Saudi financiers. Amongst others. Is there any way that complete answers to those questions will ever see the light of day?


Mueller may be constrained, but the US House of Reps is not. They can investigate whatever they want. There appear to be some shenanigans going on in regards to Saudi Arabia's crown prince ordering the assassination of a journalist and it seems to have some financial underpinnings connected to Trump and weapon sales...

But no, Ken, none of it will ever see the light of day.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#309585 - 11/29/18 01:51 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8972
Loc: North San Diego County
Mueller is playing chess five moves ahead while Trump is playing checkers, and badly at that too. Brilliant to let Trump answer his questions in writing and claim credit for them, knowing that Manafort's been telling the Trump team all the lies he told Mueller so they can "get their stories straight" AKA coordinated perjury.

Then, and only then Mueller parades out the evidence he has that proves Manafort lied. Now Trump has lied too, if he used Manafort's false claims! And not just lied, but lied to a Special Prosecutor during an official investigation. Unless Trump threw Manafort under the bus and denied his lies, he's screwed. And I'll eat my hat if Trump did that. I think he's a big fan of people "getting their stories straight".

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#309587 - 11/29/18 03:00 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17186
Quote:
Looking at Manafort and Trump on one side and Mueller on the other, one is reminded of the old adage of one side "playing chess" and the other "playing checkers." Although with today's developments, maybe it's more like chess and Candy Land.
Dan Rather.

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#309589 - 11/29/18 04:17 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15803
Loc: Florida
I know if I get my hopes up over this they'll just be dashed again when nothing comes of it.

I've felt from the very start that eventually this Trump thing would fly off the tracks. I didn't have much faith in Mueller finding a clear cut case of collusion, but a clear cut case of lying under oath might work just as well. I don't care if he ever gets indicted for anything, I just want to see him weakened enough that he'll lose in 2020.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#309592 - 11/29/18 07:05 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8972
Loc: North San Diego County
Who knows? Maybe an air-tight case of perjury is enough to kick some Republican senators' butts so they will convict. Don't forget, they still have a perfectly good Pence sitting in the wings ready to take over and keep the Presidency in Republican hands. They might even do better in 2020 if they do go with Pence now. Stick with Trump and they lose the Presidency and the Senate.

Keeping Trump in office until then is really a Democrat wish now. He's done more for the Democratic Party than Clinton and Sanders combined.

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#309595 - 11/29/18 06:00 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17186
First, the headline:Michael Cohen pleads guilty, says he lied about Trump's knowledge of Moscow project (CNN)

Then the significance:
Quote:
The Cohen revelations are potentially significant because they appear to show that Trump was engaged in business dealings with Russia in the midst of a campaign in which Moscow interfered to help elect him.

It could also intersect with other information that Mueller knows to create political and legal jeopardy for the President.


Also of significant note is that Cohen explicitly named Trump, the Trump organization, and Trump "family members" as participants in the scheme to deceive. I think the timing on this is not as has been asserted by others - because Trump is going to the G20 and planned to meet with Putin - but because the Manafort hearing (and Cohen's sentencing) is coming up, and he has gotten answers from Trump, so his case is mature enough to allow the shoes to start dropping. In addition, the charge was about lying to Congress, which is an unsubtle hint to Congress that they need to reopen the hearings.

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#309596 - 11/29/18 06:42 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6979
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
[Congress] need[s] to reopen the hearings

and what?

I read and feel your indignation, however, I see no political or legal remedy for either real or perceived "crimes".

It doesn't appear to be illegal for anyone running for office to be engaged in business activities. It is not a crime to lie to the press or ones supporters about those activities. In fact his supporters have told many reporters many times they do not care if he lies. Apparently his elected supporters in Congress agree.

So I have to ask, how would your indignation be assuaged in a highly polarized political world?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#309597 - 11/29/18 06:43 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14651
Loc: Whittier, California
One thought:
Has anyone else pondered the probability that Putin has a lot of goods on quite a few members of Congress?
I believe it is inevitable that we will learn that Putin tapped into the communications of a large number of Congress critters, which just might explain their reluctance (errr - - outright refusal?) to move these investigations forward into a more focused criminal phase.

Certain Trump defenders have been parading terms around like "coordinated perjury" or "perjury traps" when they should be pondering things like lying to a Special Prosecutor.

I guess we'll see what crops up.

_________________________
Thats all fine and good,
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE: POLITICAL BIAS WAS NOT A FACTOR.

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#309601 - 11/29/18 08:02 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8972
Loc: North San Diego County
Perjury is perjury, whether you lie to Congress, or in court, or to federal investigators. This is another one of Mueller's brilliant moves: He waits until Trump claims in writing and under penalty of perjury that he had no business dealings with Russians after he became President, and then has Cohen admit in court that he did. No doubt there is documentary evidence to back that up. That is Mueller's style: Use the documents to convince somebody to flip. Then you have both documents and people involved with the crime to take to court.

And I think it's a sure thing that Trump made provable false statements in his question reply. He'd have to admit everything to make his answers true, even if he avoided some topics. We can assume Mueller knew the answer to every question in great detail before he asked them. Any good prosecutor does.

As to who will prosecute Trump? New York state AG, that's who. Most of his federal crimes are also state crimes. Do you honestly think the state of New York is willing to forego collecting Trump's ill-gotten gains? The day he leaves office, New York state tax forensic accountants will be all over his finances. His only hope is to drop dead or flee the country before then.

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