Current Topics
RoundTable for December 2018
by pdx rick
19 minutes 45 seconds ago
Justice is coming
by Bored Member
Today at 05:15 PM
ICE - the new gestapo
by NW Ponderer
Today at 05:03 PM
What Left?
by pondering_it_all
Today at 01:44 AM
Another Solution
by pondering_it_all
Today at 01:10 AM
Archie Moore vs Yvon Durelle, December 10, 1958
by Greger
Yesterday at 04:27 PM
Judge orders porn star Stormy Daniels to pay Trump $293,000 in attorneys' fees,
by pondering_it_all
12/12/18 09:51 PM
Election Day
by NW Ponderer
12/12/18 03:42 PM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2018
by Golem
12/10/18 09:15 PM
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by chunkstyle
12/10/18 06:37 PM
Smart watches: Need Xmas Advice for Wifey
by rporter314
12/10/18 04:32 PM
None of the Above (NOTA)
by rporter314
12/09/18 06:03 PM
Israel negotiating with Hungary on revisionist Holocaust museum
by pondering_it_all
12/07/18 11:22 PM
Brexit Eve
by NW Ponderer
12/04/18 04:26 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Jeffery J. Haas
12/04/18 12:52 AM
Our political elders
by Greger
12/03/18 02:52 AM
Round table NOVEMBER 2018
by pondering_it_all
12/01/18 07:59 PM
Historic Corruption
by pondering_it_all
11/30/18 08:36 PM
Sleazy Slimeball or Slimy Sleazebag?
by Ujest Shurly
11/30/18 08:25 PM
2 million federal workers receive memo warning they can’t use the word ‘resist
by pondering_it_all
11/30/18 06:45 AM
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#309683 - 12/03/18 07:44 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
Yes, yes it does. I think trump figures if he does it in the open, it's not tampering. He doubled down this morning with more corrupt intent: Trump demands stiff prison sentence for his ex-lawyer Michael Cohen (CNBC).

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#309685 - 12/03/18 08:00 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6566
Loc: Highlands, Tx
all signs of narcissistic delusions

Folks ... if you do not think/believe/suspect Mr Trump "knows" he is above the law ... take another shot or puff of whatever good stuff clears your mind and reconsider
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#309686 - 12/03/18 08:30 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
You've hit the nail on the head, Jeff.
Quote:
(b) Whoever knowingly ... corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to—
(1) influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding;
(2) cause or induce any person to—
(A) withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official proceeding...
It doesn't matter if you sit in the White House, it is still a crime. The corruption is all that Mueller needs to establish with evidence, and I think he is well on his way to doing that.

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#309688 - 12/04/18 12:37 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
We are getting overwhelmed by all the evidence, because Trump keeps on committing crimes and usually right in public view. Mueller does not need "murder on 5th Avenue in broad daylight". His list of actual criminal offenses is going to contain hundreds of criminal acts.

There is no "smoking gun". There's a whole armory filled with smoking guns.

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#309699 - 12/04/18 05:16 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
A good prosecutor knows, in cases where the perpetrator continues to offend, you have to just go to court with what you have and leave the later crimes to later prosecution. I learned that when I was a prosecutor 3 decades ago. It hasn't changed since, and Mueller is a really good prosecutor.

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#309704 - 12/04/18 10:02 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13409
Loc: Whittier, California
OPINION by Tom Toles - WaPo

A fish rots from the head... and that leaves the rest of us ‘fin’-ished.


Quote:
If the edifice of a democracy is a slow, hard-won accumulation of laws and norms, let us bow our heads in sorrow to the daily eradication of norms.

Which norms? Honesty. Transparency. Humility. Dignity. Restraint. Cooperation. And did I mention honesty?


Will we actually recover from the Era of Trump, or will we witness the slow slide into banana republic status, as we are treated to an endless parade of corrupt demagogues, entitled celebrities, strongmen and vacant placeholders who pretend to govern while acting as further rubber stamps for an entrenched elite who will function as vultures stripping the carcass?


_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#309710 - 12/05/18 06:21 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
Quote:
“His early cooperation was particularly valuable,” Mueller writes, “because he was one of the few people with long-term and firsthand insight regarding events and issues under investigation by the SCO” (special counsel’s office).

Mueller adds that Flynn’s decision to cooperate “likely affected the decisions of related firsthand witnesses to be forthcoming with the SCO and cooperate”— and redacts the sentence that follows.
4 takeaways from Flynn sentencing memo (Vox)

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#309711 - 12/05/18 09:37 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
I think the degree of Flynn's cooperation has to be pretty scary for Trump et al. He has really spilled the beans on everybody, and they really need to take any deal they can get. Because Mueller knows everything! Flynn probably deserves no jail time because he really took the deal. Unlike Manafort.

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#309749 - 12/08/18 08:27 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
It really appears from the Manafort and Cohen filings that the Trumps' geese are cooked. Moreover, Mueller is REALLY emphasizing that cooperation means FULL AND HONEST cooperation. Cohen will get 4+ years, and Manafort 10 or more. It will be hard NOT to hold impeachment hearings when conspiracy to commit election fraud had been explicitly alleged against the President. Moreover, Donald Junior and the Trump organization are directly accused of Russian collusion.

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#309750 - 12/08/18 06:25 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2194
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I wonder how the folks relying on presidential pardon are going to act if the Supremes uphold the law that kinda allows double jeopardy?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme...dy-rule-n944891

That being said there is another little point. It seems that if somebody actually gets a presidential pardon then they are, by law (apparently), forced to answer any question by a prosecutor.

Kindofa damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of deal. In this case especially for Jackass?

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