Current Topics
Justice is coming
by rporter314
1 second ago
RoundTable for December 2018
by pdx rick
Today at 06:02 PM
ICE - the new gestapo
by NW Ponderer
Today at 05:03 PM
What Left?
by pondering_it_all
Today at 01:44 AM
Another Solution
by pondering_it_all
Today at 01:10 AM
Archie Moore vs Yvon Durelle, December 10, 1958
by Greger
Yesterday at 04:27 PM
Judge orders porn star Stormy Daniels to pay Trump $293,000 in attorneys' fees,
by pondering_it_all
12/12/18 09:51 PM
Election Day
by NW Ponderer
12/12/18 03:42 PM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2018
by Golem
12/10/18 09:15 PM
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by chunkstyle
12/10/18 06:37 PM
Smart watches: Need Xmas Advice for Wifey
by rporter314
12/10/18 04:32 PM
None of the Above (NOTA)
by rporter314
12/09/18 06:03 PM
Israel negotiating with Hungary on revisionist Holocaust museum
by pondering_it_all
12/07/18 11:22 PM
Brexit Eve
by NW Ponderer
12/04/18 04:26 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Jeffery J. Haas
12/04/18 12:52 AM
Our political elders
by Greger
12/03/18 02:52 AM
Round table NOVEMBER 2018
by pondering_it_all
12/01/18 07:59 PM
Historic Corruption
by pondering_it_all
11/30/18 08:36 PM
Sleazy Slimeball or Slimy Sleazebag?
by Ujest Shurly
11/30/18 08:25 PM
2 million federal workers receive memo warning they can’t use the word ‘resist
by pondering_it_all
11/30/18 06:45 AM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16430 Topics
283248 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Topic Options
#309663 - 12/02/18 08:21 PM China belt and road
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2194
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-belt-and-road-china-infrastructure-project-2018-1

I just got back from Italy. There are actually 2 (two) high speed trains out of Rome. High speed trains in the US - none. Now China is spending close to a trillion dollars to hook all of Europe, and Asia, up by road and train.

The U.S? Oh, we are fighting a 18 year old war to no avail, enriching the very rich, taking healthcare away from the poor and elderly, putting an entire generation of college graduates in a debt they are unlikely to get rid of, doing absolutely nothing about our failing infrastructure, have a national debt that is, basically unmatched in the history of the nation, and have a president that is, basically, a laughing stock of the rest of the world, etc.

I know, maybe too much and too negative. Sorry about that.

Top
#309669 - 12/03/18 02:31 AM Re: China belt and road [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13409
Loc: Whittier, California
I'm going to strangle the next person who says something about California's "train to nowhere".

Every country, every region, that has ever installed high speed rail has enjoyed a huge increase in economic power.

The I-5 corridor between L.A. and San Francisco is a choked disaster and air travel has become such a nightmare that I refuse to fly to any location less than 750 miles away anymore.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#309735 - 12/07/18 04:48 AM Re: China belt and road [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13409
Loc: Whittier, California
The I-5 corridor in California was shut down yet again today, perhaps the tenth time in the last six months.
This time it was due to inclement winter weather.
The cost to our economy is enormous when this happens.

But it's not JUST winter weather...the I-5 corridor gets shut down regularly for a wide variety of reasons, all the time.
A state like California, with an economy like California's, HAS to have additional transportation arteries on top of just one single ribbon of asphalt between major cities in the North and the South.
Moreover, the larger idea of a high speed rail infrastructure tying all three states, CA-OR-WA together, would make the West Coast an economic powerhouse that could rival the rest of the world.
Of course it's expensive...of course it has cost overruns, of course it is a massive undertaking.
And in the end, it's the only way that the West Coast of the United States has a fighting chance at economic security.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#309736 - 12/07/18 04:50 AM Re: China belt and road [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13409
Loc: Whittier, California
By the way, do you think the Chinese are going to take that arrest of their Huawei CEO lightly?
Hell to the No they won't.
I expect that the gloves are going to come off.
Don't forget, China has sufficient economic resources to drop a cool trillion and a half on a HIGHWAY system devoted purely to trade with the rest of the world.

That signals, at least to me, that they have sufficient resources to do both that AND tighten the spigot with regard to US trade at the same time, while strengthening trade with the rest of the world.
At some point, maybe not right away, trade with those other connected nations will become more important than trade with the US market.

The wealthy in China enjoy their good fortune at the pleasure of the Chinese leadership, who can at any time decide that excess wealth should be curtailed, embargoed, confiscated, enjoined or otherwise tapped for the collective fortunes of the Chinese as a whole.

China has, on many occasions over millennia, closed off their society to the outside world and practiced solitary austerity as a disciplinary measure meant to reassert an inner toughness.

Read the writings of Confucian philosophy on health building, diligence, simplicity and thrift.
It is no stretch to imagine Chinese leadership reasserting those principles as a prophylactic measure against what they might regard as the dangers of excess, sloth, corruption, and vulgarity.
Chinese austerity is taught as a means to inculcate self-control and innovativeness under adversity, thus we should actually take a moment to wonder if our beligerence and bellicosity on the trade issue might spur them to react with measures meant to knock the legs out from under our utterly China dependent manufacturing infrastructure, which only benefits them as long as they perceive that it does not pose a threat to their societal stability and their security.

They would think nothing of putting Chinese society back on a strict diet of a bowl of rice, one pair of black pajamas and one bicycle per family if necessary to teach the fat and lazy Americans a lesson, while making overtures to the rest of the world to take part in a new Chinese era of global trade which excludes us to a greater or lesser extent.

Don't forget, the Chinese are now practicing social capital and behavioral conditioning, where one not only has a fiscal credit rating but a social one as well. If they decide that America's behavior is contrary to their own internal social credit rankings, nothing will stop them from practicing externally what they have imposed on their own people.

In other words, we better hope that the Chinese don't decide to "party like it's 1949."
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

Top
#309835 - 12/12/18 07:29 PM Re: China belt and road [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2194
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
What we think about China is not, exactly, correct. For instance, China continues to work on their environment and they are doing that because their citizens got upset. In other words, their government doesn't ignore what the people want and say and are, in some ways, even more responsive than our own government.

On top of that it may be of interest that there have been several folks, both Chinese and not, who have suggested that their belt and road thing was started to make sure that there were going to be jobs for them that might have lost jobs due to the Trump tariff thing. Anybody who is a China watcher knows that their government really pays attention and actually tries to act in the interest of its citizens.

I suspect our view is because we are so convinced that WE are the shining light of Democracy on a hill and WE know what its all about. I have traveled quite a bit in China and unlike Russia, for instance, its rare to hear people who are really unhappy with their government. Those that I have heard, and this was several years ago now, was upset over how rich many of the government seemed to be and was looking forward to the next purge that would kill all of the corrupt. I have also been to places where gov thugs were drunk and acting out. The interesting thing about that last is that, on the second night they were back, drunk and acting out. They were flat out arrested and thrown into jail whilst all the time telling everybody that they were making a terrible mistake. I asked somebody what would happen to them. I was told that they would be put to work someplace away from everybody else so they could consider their actions in a quieter, less comfortable, environment.

I am not saying that life in China is better than the one we have here. Its just different. Its also true that they handle their problems waaaay different that we do. In that respect, however, THEY do handle their problems which, in many cases, we just do not. I will give you another example. I used to have a bill collection agency. I was approached by a group of Chinese who had lent a LOT of money to some Americans and wanted their money back. The problem is that they have absolutely no paper work. Their system, at that time (years ago), was built on the fact that if somebody borrowed they paid it back. I explained that there was nothing I could do without some kind of paperwork. They sighed, told me they kept being told that. I suspect they eventually found somebody who would collect their money with a bit more vigor than our laws allow (I told them that was what I would have done under the same circumstances). What was amazing was that these people actually believed that a person's word WAS their bond and they REALLY believed that!

Top
#309836 - 12/12/18 07:30 PM Re: China belt and road [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2194
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
What we think about China is not, exactly, correct. For instance, China continues to work on their environment and they are doing that because their citizens got upset. In other words, their government doesn't ignore what the people want and say and are, in some ways, even more responsive than our own government.

On top of that it may be of interest that there have been several folks, both Chinese and not, who have suggested that their belt and road thing was started to make sure that there were going to be jobs for them that might have lost jobs due to the Trump tariff thing. Anybody who is a China watcher knows that their government really pays attention and actually tries to act in the interest of its citizens.

I suspect our view is because we are so convinced that WE are the shining light of Democracy on a hill and WE know what its all about. I have traveled quite a bit in China and unlike Russia, for instance, its rare to hear people who are really unhappy with their government. Those that I have heard, and this was several years ago now, was upset over how rich many of the government seemed to be and was looking forward to the next purge that would kill all of the corrupt. I have also been to places where gov thugs were drunk and acting out. The interesting thing about that last is that, on the second night they were back, drunk and acting out. They were flat out arrested and thrown into jail whilst all the time telling everybody that they were making a terrible mistake. I asked somebody what would happen to them. I was told that they would be put to work someplace away from everybody else so they could consider their actions in a quieter, less comfortable, environment.

I am not saying that life in China is better than the one we have here. Its just different. Its also true that they handle their problems waaaay different that we do. In that respect, however, THEY do handle their problems which, in many cases, we just do not. I will give you another example. I used to have a bill collection agency. I was approached by a group of Chinese who had lent a LOT of money to some Americans and wanted their money back. The problem is that they have absolutely no paper work. Their system, at that time (years ago), was built on the fact that if somebody borrowed they paid it back. I explained that there was nothing I could do without some kind of paperwork. They sighed, told me they kept being told that. I suspect they eventually found somebody who would collect their money with a bit more vigor than our laws allow (I told them that was what I would have done under the same circumstances). What was amazing was that these people actually believed that a person's word WAS their bond and they REALLY believed that!

Top

Who's Online
0 registered (), 47 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2