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#309799 - 12/10/18 06:37 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1444
Her policy positions (foreign, health care, minimum wage, race) made her a lousy candidate as well as her tone deafness and the campaigns hubris. For me anyway. The crucial battle ground states thought the same as well.
I'm still of a mind she's running again but time will tell.

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#309909 - 12/17/18 08:14 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8490
Loc: North San Diego County
Are we having some sort of contest to see how many Senate seats Republicans can lose in 2020? (The answer is 22.) This latest court ruling that ACA is unconstitutional should be ripe just around that time. Do you think maybe millions of people facing losing their health insurance will be inspired to actually vote in their best interests? Talk about a great campaign issue! Republicans just keep on shooting themselves in the foot. Complaining about ACA is a great campaign issue for them to get their (shrinking) fan base worked up, but God Forbid they actually succeeded. The backlash would be huge.

It's like abortion in that sense. A wonderful issue to differentiate themselves from Democrats, but if they actually got it banned, the voters would turn them out en masse.

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#309913 - 12/17/18 04:31 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16729
The headline: Trump says he would work with Democrats on 'great' replacement if Obamacare is scrapped (Politico). The reality: same thing he said two years ago, he didn't mean it then, either. He'll take what is already there and "rebrand" it, just like he did with all those Trump properties, steaks, wine, and NAFTA. What Dems need to understand is, even talking to the man is anti- democratic.

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#309919 - 12/17/18 10:34 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8490
Loc: North San Diego County
Democrats might just be able to pass a bill to change it to RomneyCare. They are almost identical, except RomneyCare had larger op-out fines. It would be pretty funny to watch Republican's attack one of their own presidential candidate's plans.

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#309920 - 12/18/18 02:14 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14867
Loc: Florida
Quote:
It would be pretty funny to watch Republican's attack one of their own presidential candidate's plans.


John McCain pretty much became persona non grata when he diasagreed with Trump. Mitt Romney is the butt of Republican jokes already. There is no loyalty among thieves.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#309925 - 12/18/18 03:42 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8490
Loc: North San Diego County
True, the Party of Mitt Romney is not the Trump Party of today, but it would still be funny watching them jump through hoops trying to explain to all the Romney voters why Romney was a traitor. GOP is the Party of the Elephant, remember. Those old white guys are going to remember Mitt was the greatest thing since sliced bread, back in the day.

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#309932 - 12/18/18 06:52 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14867
Loc: Florida
I never got the impression that Mitt was ever really well loved by Republicans, he was just a candidate who lost and dropped off the map. McCain had more going for him because he was a war hero and a Senator. Until Trump declared that no one who got captured could be a hero.

Always known as a "maverick" McCain stepped out of line and was kicked to the curb even on his deathbed. It's too bad about John McCain...he would have made a better Democrat than Republican.

But as far as health care goes I think we're on track to see younger people being able to buy into Medicare. One of Chuck Schumer's pet projects is allowing people 50 years old to buy in. We may see that pop up in the next two years along with improvements to Obamacare and more states buying into Medicaid. I really don't expect much to happen until after 2020 when Democrats take control again. History predicts that there will be a flurry of health care plans discussed, gains will be made, then Republicans will take control and chip them all away.

The most important issue in all this will be to insure that every detail passes muster with the strict constitutionalists. If that isn't possible then the law can't stand. Maybe our constitution simply rules out federally administered healthcare...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#309934 - 12/18/18 07:57 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8490
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Maybe our constitution simply rules out federally administered healthcare.


I really doubt that. It has no language anywhere saying health care must be private and it does have language about the general welfare of the people. So I think it comes down to money. If Medicare-for-all is cheaper than other alternatives, then I think it wins.

And that leads to the buy-in cost question. Obviously it is not fair to just sign everybody over 50 for free. People over 65 paid all their working lives for Medicare. That's why you need to move gradually or else charge people near as much as they pay for insurance now until they reach 65. There are a myriad of options for this, but the key is to get people over 65 to believe the new system is going to make Medicare stronger.

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#309941 - 12/19/18 07:33 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13715
Loc: Whittier, California
South Carolina GOP open to canceling state's 2020 primary to protect Trump from challenge

Quote:
The Republican Party in South Carolina is weighing whether to cancel its presidential nominating contest in 2020 in an effort to protect President Trump from potential challengers.


As insane as you think it might get, it's bound to get even more so.
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#309943 - 12/19/18 09:43 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13715
Loc: Whittier, California
You cannot have a football game between the Cowboys and the Redskins and then suddenly, a San Francisco 49-er runs onto the line of scrimmage and says that he's playing on the Redskins team.
Bernie refused to join the Democratic Party, and that means that he is not a Democrat, even if he says he is running "as a Democrat".
Because according to the rules of both parties, "running as a Democrat" (or as a Republican) might more accurately be:
"Running as if I was a Democrat".

There simply are no party provisions for people running "as if" they were a member, you have to BE a member of the party.
And so, because Bernie was NOT a member of the party, the party chose someone else. I'm fairly certain that, if it had been anyone else instead of Hillary, they would have done much the same thing, namely: PROTECT THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE.

Because in the end, whether you and I agree what they did was immoral or even sometimes illegal, they did what a party is required to do, select a candidate and then protect them.

Right now as you read this, the South Carolina GOP is pondering the idea of canceling their 2020 GOP SC state primary ALTOGETHER, in order to protect Trump.

That means, if enough states cancel their GOP primaries altogether in 2020, NO ONE "running as if they are Republican" has a chance because no other REPUBLICAN PARTY MEMBER even has a chance.

When seen through that kind of lens, all of a sudden the DNC closing ranks around Hillary in 2016 seems rather tame by comparison.
Bernie, as much as I love the guy, should have tossed his silly and sentimental "Democratic Socialist" tag in the trash the day he set foot on Capitol Hill for the first time, because in reality, according to the work he has done, he's a liberal New Deal Democrat in the style (and largely platform) of FDR.

Had he done that all those years ago, I suspect that the DNC would have been transformed by him* a long time ago, and they would have had no choice but to run him in 2016.

(*Witness his considerable grass roots 2016 crowdfunding mojo - now extrapolate that out ten years prior all the way up till 2016)
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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