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#309273 - 11/07/18 11:25 PM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15461
Loc: Florida
Quote:
My guess is that the DNC will become more reflexive and shrill demanding a move move to the center


Ouch. But probably.

In truth, the new Bohemians, the avant garde, the LBGTQ faction, people of color, and old Marxists like me all got out and voted their asses off. It just wasn't enough here. We got the House, I probably shouldn't complain, I just really wanted Gillum to win.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#309277 - 11/08/18 12:01 AM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8773
Loc: North San Diego County
Gillum victory would have been sweet, but Florida probably isn't there yet. They probably should have run a White guy, or at least a Hispanic. Same deal in Georgia: should have run a White guy, even if the most qualified Democrat was a Black woman.

But Scott Walker is out! And local for me, Daryl Issa's seat goes to a Democrat.

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#309281 - 11/08/18 01:22 AM Re: What Left? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15461
Loc: Florida
Florida had a pretty good centrist candidate who lost the primary to Gillum. I think she'd have lost worse. Daughter of former Governor Bob Graham. Gillum brought out everybody to vote. We fell 1% short.
And we sent Rick Scott to the Senate....

On the bright side Sen. Nelson is out. He was a Democrat but totally worthless as a senator. Scott will likely do the state more good than Nelson ever did. He'll destroy the planet while he does it though.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#309285 - 11/08/18 05:41 AM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8773
Loc: North San Diego County
Well, often Senators do nothing for their state and destroy the planet, so you do get something out of it.

I wish primary voters would think about winning the general election a bit more.

Sessions is out. Maybe we get a more rational federal weed response now. DEA has approved a cannabis-based drug, so their Class 1 category for weed makes no sense. I can see Trump legalizing weed to buy off the stoners!

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#309302 - 11/08/18 06:14 PM Re: What Left? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15461
Loc: Florida
Rick Scott attacked Nelson for not doing enough about Florida's water issues from the federal level. He got himself elected so he will be expected to do something about Florida's water issues.
Scott is a Trump acolyte, Trump has valuable holdings in Florida and wants to see them protected.

Same goes for our Governor elect. So perhaps the power of evil can be used for good here. At the expense of destroying the planet of course...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#309308 - 11/08/18 08:29 PM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1720
So I know for for many, Sanders has a DelMonte sticker that makes his policy and positions a non starter but I think his take on the elections is worth reading. It's hard to deny he has started something of an awakening of class identity and progressive ideas that had been nearly eliminated from our right wing politics.

Sanders take

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#309319 - 11/09/18 02:42 AM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15461
Loc: Florida
Yeah, ole Bernie lit things on fire, bless his heart.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#309616 - 11/30/18 06:48 AM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14303
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
So I know for for many, Sanders has a DelMonte sticker that makes his policy and positions a non starter but I think his take on the elections is worth reading. It's hard to deny he has started something of an awakening of class identity and progressive ideas that had been nearly eliminated from our right wing politics.

Sanders take


NO, not at all, I don't think Bernie is radioactive, I love the guy.
I just don't want to experience a repeat performance of driving with the parking brake on, that's all.

The system works how it works, and if you want to win a POTUS election, it appears that you have to pick one of the two main parties.

Bernie refuses to do so, and the two main parties do what they do, and then we wind up with another Republican in the White House all over again.

I wish to GOD Bernie would accept reality, I wish he'd accepted it years ago. We tried to do the independent thing and it failed.

Life is like that sometimes, but if you don't learn from experience, you are doomed to continue failing.
We cannot afford another heartbreak like Bernie 2016 all over again.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#309618 - 11/30/18 08:45 AM Re: What Left? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1720
The heartbreak was the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign. At least sanders went back to work pushing for candidates and progressive proposals.
Your loyalty for labels over ideas is amusing Jeff. It's a shame the Democratic Party wasn't loyal to anything beyond its own self interest.
Red team blue team. It doesn't matter. They are both controlled by the same owners.
With democrats like these who needs republicans?


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#309621 - 11/30/18 03:41 PM Re: What Left? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17092
I know it is not de rigeur in some circles, but to understand how to win, nationally, study Obama. He did it twice, and resoundingly. He is not a centrist, yet he pulled together a coalition that included them. He competed everywhere (like Beto in Texas). He is intelligent, charismatic, idealistic and pragmatic. Organization and vision are what won.

Many of the new Democrats follow that same pattern. They are charismatic, intelligent and organized (and diverse). They will make an impact, but they have to be pragmatic about it. That doesn't mean not being idealistic, but it does mean being strategic. Dumping Pelosi now is not strategic. Use her skills and experience, but learn from her. In a year or two, they'll be ready to take over. In the meantime, choose battles wisely. Focus on achievable goals - healthcare and infrastructure first, to make progress and show they can be effective. It means working with Republicans, but that's reality.

The reality is, they need to speak to rural America. Democrats have strongholds in urban centers, and growing influence in suburbs, but they won't gain and keep majorities without gaining influence in rural areas and States. FDR and LBJ managed that by providing principled vision. Obama made inroads. Clinton failed, not because of a lack of principles or intelligence, but because she couldn't sell her vision broadly enough. 3/5ths of the States are still rural. They need to be sold. Healthcare, education and infrastructure are programs they will get behind. Focus on those and Democrats will make inroads.

There are liberal values in rural America, they just don't recognize them as such. (See teachers in Kentucky and Oklahoma.) They need to be taught. 3 pillars that will have universal appeal: healthcare, education funding and infrastructure. Build community around that. It works in rural America and urban America. It's hope and change in different wrappings.

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