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#310153 - 01/02/19 11:49 PM The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17001
Or will, pay for it...

Yeah, sure.

Has the Border Wall Begun? (Factcheck.org)
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#310156 - 01/03/19 02:08 AM Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
I'm not sure on what Trump's Great Wall accomplishes that the existing steel barrier does not. You can't drive through either, though you can drive through the hundreds of miles with no fence at all. You can scale either one. You can put a ladder up and let people down the US side with a rope. That seems like either one is very easily defeated.

In fact, the comb-like steel slats could be opened with a 24 inch gap with one small thermite charge. Put a few cardboard boxes around it and nobody would notice. That's just made from aluminum powder and rust, so it's available to pretty much anybody who wants to melt some steel.

You can also tunnel underneath, which has been done for decades. But really, most undocumented people came here with a legitimate visa, and just overstayed. What is a wall supposed to do about them?

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#310166 - 01/03/19 10:30 AM Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9305
Loc: One of the Mexicos
First it was a wall...
Then it was a fence...
Now it is a metaphor.

As a metaphor, does it really need funding?
_________________________
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#310171 - 01/03/19 04:55 PM Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17001
I love when Trump tweets directly contradictory messages seriatim. First, they are doing a great job at the border; then, they need a new, beautiful wall; then it's a real boy wall; no, it's "slats"; then it's been built and it's already working... Mexico's paying for it, but we need to fund it first...

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#310177 - 01/03/19 08:24 PM Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
When Mexico pays for it, a big beautiful wall will be erected in Mr Trump's "honor"
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
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#310181 - 01/04/19 02:01 AM Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
Actually, the Pay-Go policy the House adopted today is an assault on The Wall: If they want a wall, the government has to raise the taxes to pay for it.
_________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

John Steinbeck

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#310183 - 01/04/19 02:17 AM Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I think that is precisely what Mr Trump did not say but certainly implied i.e. the revenues from the new trade arrangement would generate more profits for American companies (and obviously he meant more than the tax cut reduction) which would be taxed in the normal course of taxation and thereby etc etc including being appropriated by the House.

First the new trade agreement has not been ratified (and I suppose there is a chance it would not be), second, I am not convinced even if it was ratified there would be an increase in revenues, and third, if it were true there was increased revenues, I am not convinced it would be more than the tax benefits these companies enjoyed previously, which of course would mean an actual and real tax increase on people.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#310229 - 01/06/19 06:14 AM Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14185
Loc: Whittier, California
What will the next shutdown be about?

The moment the Dems give Twumpy his boner jam on "border security" which we know is a euphemism for his wall which will never be built, he will call it a win, and his "greek chorus" will taunt him and question his manhood and egg him on to take another hostage, and another, and another, and another...because it's like teenage males and masturbation.

Why do I say that? Because just getting that one chubby and one happy ending means he's going to want to play with his new toy as much as possible, and if he doesn't, his hate radio and Fox News peanut gallery will impugn his cocksmanship.

Obviously the next hostage taking and shutdown will be about something very important, like that public ass licking ceremony known as a parade. You don't think he forgot about that, did you?
Once he's declared victory on his nonexistent wall that only Twumpians can see, he's going to demand that parade.
The world doesn't respect us (HIM) enough, the parade is YUGE important!

Or maybe declaring Putin's birthday a national holiday?
His base would love that almost as much. Or maybe his bust carved into Mount Trumpmore, (which BTW "is already under construction and NOBODY has ever seen anything like it", but it will need funds and warrant a shutdown too)

It's gonna be YUGE.

_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#310232 - 01/07/19 04:22 AM Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17001
Fox’s Chris Wallace challenges Sarah Sanders on claim terrorists enter at southern border (The Hill). Even conservative journalists don't like to be lied to.

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#310239 - 01/07/19 07:49 PM Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17001
Trump likes crises because it distracts and doesn't have to correlate with reality. Republican s like them for much the same reasons, so, in that regard, he is a "typical Republican". So, what's really going on?

Mueller.

Since we're talking about the shutdown, people aren't talking about the crimes at the center of the Trump administration. This provides a myriad of distractions: disputes over facts, border wall, immigration, human rights, national security. Just like the sudden withdrawal from Syria, it's not about policy, it's about changing the subject. Keeping the focus on Trump (and his ginormous ego), and not on Mueller, or the Russians, or debates over treason, or impeachment. We'll get there - and them he'll create some new faux crisis.

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