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#310952 - 02/14/19 10:52 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3859
Loc: Eugene, OR
Here’s a link in The Atlantic by Andrew McCabe from his upcoming book about his thoughts on Trump. It’s really quite disturbing but not surprising:

Quote:
People do not appreciate how far we have fallen from normal standards of presidential accountability. Today we have a president who is willing not only to comment prejudicially on criminal prosecutions but to comment on ones that potentially affect him. He does both of these things almost daily. He is not just sounding a dog whistle. He is lobbying for a result. The president has stepped over bright ethical and moral lines wherever he has encountered them. Every day brings a new low, with the president exposing himself as a deliberate liar who will say whatever he pleases to get whatever he wants. If he were “on the box” at Quantico, he would break the machine.


Link
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#310957 - 02/15/19 04:23 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8788
Loc: North San Diego County
I wonder who is going to get indicted tomorrow?

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#311073 - 02/20/19 09:16 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17116
Justice may be stymied after all: Justice Department preparing for Mueller report as early as next week (CNN). Bill Barr gets confirmed, and immediately the rugs get lifted and the brooms come out. The shovels are next. Here's my prediction:

Barr has, essentially "terminated" the Mueller probe, denying the pursuit of "obstruction" on the basis of his previous memo (Presidents can't obstruct, they're all powerful). The "report" Barr presents to Congress will detail only what has already been charged, and ignore additional information as "uncharged conduct" that DOJ doesn't "comment" on. Congress will demand the original report which Barr will resist. Whitaker has been kept on at Justice so they can gag him and claim privilege. The stall will be maintained until Trump is out of office, and the records will mysteriously vanish when the Democratic administration takes over. On his way out, Trump will pardon all his "loyal" cronies and family members.

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#311074 - 02/20/19 11:18 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15512
Loc: Florida
And so...like I predicted long ago in this very thread...
Justice is not coming.

The Mueller report needs to contain only two words. No Collusion.

Everyone charged will be pardoned and that will be the end of it.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311076 - 02/20/19 11:52 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6851
Loc: Highlands, Tx
How does AG Barr stop an ongoing investigation into obstruction?

It could be most if not all of the investigative portion of the mandate has been exhausted, and would therefore mean there is no need for a large contingent of investigators. To think otherwise would suggest one has made the fundamental assumption the investigation is not close to being closed.

Certainly AG Barr and his cadre of associated Trump loyalists are in place to obstruct. And almost as certain blanket pardons have already been written.

I don;t see the germs ...
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#311080 - 02/21/19 12:34 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15512
Loc: Florida
(i) The investigation was for collusion, not obstruction

(ii) A sitting president cannot obstruct justice

(iii) A sitting president cannot be indicted

And so you have it: No collusion, no obstruction, no indictments.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311090 - 02/21/19 05:28 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8788
Loc: North San Diego County
Maybe no indictment until he leaves office, but then there is the matter of state crimes. Trump will be tried and found guilty of state tax fraud and money laundering at the least. Even if he is pardoned by himself or some other President, that does not absolve him of state crimes. For that matter, accepting a pardon means you plead guilty to the crime, so the state version of those crimes will be slam-dunk cases.

If we don't prosecute treason, then what are we telling the next guy who thinks about committing treason?

I also think you are ignoring the power of the House committees to subpoena Mueller and learn everything he knows.

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#311091 - 02/21/19 06:09 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15512
Loc: Florida
Grasping at straws are we? But but but....

In January of 2021, Donald Trump is going to board Marine One and fly to the nearest airport where he will be met by his own private jet to be whisked far far away to some secret tropical resort beyond the reach of extradition. Melania and the brat will return to New York.

And they lived happily (and separately) ever after.

There's justice for ya...More realistically though, Trump will join a very select group of men who will always be called Mr. President. They have been to the top of the mountain and they are untouchable.
Absolved of all crimes by their service to their country.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#311096 - 02/21/19 03:48 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: Greger]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6851
Loc: Highlands, Tx

Originally Posted By: Greger
(i) The investigation was for collusion, not obstruction


Originally Posted By: Business Insider
Rosenstein also gave Mueller the power to investigate "any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a)" — including perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses.


Originally Posted By: Greger
(ii) A sitting president cannot obstruct justice


Originally Posted By: Neal Katyal
The idea that a president can’t obstruct justice died with King George III, with a brief attempt at revival by Richard Nixon.


Originally Posted By: Greger
(iii) A sitting president cannot be indicted


Originally Posted By: Philip Bobbitt
Professor Tribe argues, very roughly, first that it is imperative that the Constitution be construed to permit indictment


Your cynicism is duly noted as it should be in consideration of current status of significant players in this drama. However, it also has to be noted first, SCO has purview outside the strict limitation of investigating collusion. Second, despite the fact a president has wide ranging powers, he could conceivably break the law by ordering acts which are illegal in other contexts. Third, to argue a sitting president cannot be indicted is tantamount to saying a sitting president is above the law.

My prediction ... SCO will report there was collusion (conspiracy) between Russian agents and the Trump campaign. There will be people named.

SCO will report Mr Trump maintained a pattern of obstructing justice of the underlying crime of collusion (conspiracy) with elements of the Russian government.

SCO will not report an indictment of Mr Trump in deference to current DoJ protocols.

Now the reality check ... Republicans will whitewash the report. DoJ will not prosecute based on report. There will be no impeachment proceedings in Senate. Blanket pardons will be issued. No political repercussions for Mr Trump and his gang of corrupt conspirators.

If this doesn't provide damaging fodder for a presidential campaign, then political operatives are not doing their job. I can not imagine not arguing a president of the United States was arguably acting on the behalf of the Russian government while sitting in the WH. Even Trump supporters can see how that would be deleterious to the security of the United States.

But I dunno. I also believe a huge chunk of Americans are, and I won't mince words, stupid.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#311097 - 02/21/19 06:04 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15512
Loc: Florida
Quote:
to argue a sitting president cannot be indicted is tantamount to saying a sitting president is above the law.

Then let's just go ahead and say it...A sitting president is above the law. He can be impeached by the House and tried by the Senate. But otherwise he's immune to due process as we generally know it.

Apparently so is his family whose lack of ethics and willingness to profit from their positions is as deplorable as the 30% of Americans who believe they can do no wrong.

We have gone past oligarchy and entered into an era of kleptocracy.

The law of the jungle is the only law that means anything and only the rich will survive.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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