Current Topics
What is a far leftist, anyway?
by perotista
0 seconds ago
The Impeachment of Donald trump
by Greger
Today at 08:06 PM
Public option vs Medicare for All
by Greger
Today at 07:48 PM
auto industry, unions and strikes
by jgw
Today at 07:14 PM
RoundTable for Fall 2019
by Greger
Today at 07:03 PM
Where have all the conservatives gone?
by NW Ponderer
Yesterday at 04:16 PM
The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing
by Greger
10/19/19 03:41 AM
What is "old"?
by Greger
10/19/19 03:03 AM
Never-Before-Seen Trump Tax Documents Show Major Inconsistencies
by pondering_it_all
10/19/19 02:26 AM
Hyper-partisanship and irrationality
by logtroll
10/19/19 12:47 AM
If ISIS does the unthinkable...
by chunkstyle
10/18/19 01:09 PM
Are both "sides" equally corrupt?
by chunkstyle
10/18/19 12:18 PM
The Departed - 2019
by pdx rick
10/17/19 01:12 PM
Why do humans fight so much?
by Greger
10/15/19 02:13 PM
Global warming predictions
by logtroll
10/13/19 08:47 PM
Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit
by pdx rick
10/12/19 07:35 PM
Partisans' Trust in Legislative Branch Has Shifted in Past Year
by perotista
10/11/19 03:37 AM
Trump unleashes ISIS in Kurd Country
by Greger
10/10/19 05:31 PM
SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization
by NW Ponderer
10/09/19 03:08 PM
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by chunkstyle
10/07/19 02:44 PM
Forum Stats
6282 Members
59 Forums
16715 Topics
290989 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 8 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Topic Options
#315071 - 09/08/19 03:24 AM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14332
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
The main problem is that hot lithium ions are very reactive, so they dissolve the uranium and thorium fuel, but they also combine with the reactor structure material, dissolving it into the molten salt.


What do you make of this?

Lithium - World Nuclear Association

Quote:
As a fluoride, Li-7 is used in the lithium fluoride (LiF) and lithium-beryllium fluorides (FLiBe) which comprise the coolant salt in most molten salt reactors (MSRs) now the focus of intensive development. FLiBe has about 14% lithium, so even higher levels of purity are required – 99.995% Li-7. In most cases the coolant salt also has the fuel dissolved in it. Such fluoride salts have very low vapour pressure even at red heat, carry more heat than the same volume of water, have good heat transfer properties, have low neutron absorbtion, are not damaged by radiation, do not react violently with air or water, and some are inert to some common structural metals.LiF is exceptionally stable chemically, and the LiF-BeF2 mix (‘FLiBe’) is eutectic (at 459°C it has a lower melting point than either ingredient – LiF is about 500°C). FLiBe is favoured in MSR primary cooling, and when uncontaminated has a low corrosion effect. The three nuclides (Li-7, Be, F) are among the few to have low enough thermal neutron capture cross-sections not to interfere with fission reactions. FLiNaK (LiF-NaF-KF) is also eutectic and solidifies at 454°C. It has a higher neutron cross-section than FLiBe or LiF but can be used intermediate cooling loops, without the toxic beryllium.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

Top
#315077 - 09/08/19 11:48 AM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: logtroll]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 475
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
All of what you said logtroll, is seen as an expense to a business. They are against anything that cuts into the profits. Their brain function is profit over enviroment or anything and everything else. How do you overcome that mindset?

If there is no clear gain for them they won't do it.
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

Top
#315079 - 09/08/19 01:28 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: Ujest Shurly]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9474
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
All of what you said logtroll, is seen as an expense to a business. They are against anything that cuts into the profits. Their brain function is profit over enviroment or anything and everything else. How do you overcome that mindset?

If there is no clear gain for them they won't do it.

You hit on a core issue in solving what I think of as the fundamental cultural change that must occur if humans are to dodge catastrophe. My puny efforts to develop a significant alternative to the corporate/capitalist Matrix can’t stand toe to claw with Monsanto or BP or ConAgra and battle it out for market share dominance.

Our strategy is to go at it from a cellular approach, too small to be worth the notice of the Corporate Ogres - we do this not from a desire to fight them, but because it will work to make the cells (rural communities) healthier. A metaphor is the very biodiverse microbial soil inoculant that we promote, a model that grows laterally and with great diversity, instead of vertically in a 'stovepipe'. One reason I believe that we can do this is because the Ogres are currently not working the rural community “markets” - the concept of economies of scale has become so unquestionably accepted that anything small is unimportant and goes unnoticed. Interestingly, the economies of scale concept is a fiction in small communities - appropriate scale and context are the keys. Multinational corporations are not interested in appropriate small scale, and can’t (don't want to) compete in that arena.

In case you think I am theorizing and missing something, you should know that what I’m talking about comes from decades of experience, not dreaming. There have been uncountable micro-revelations associated with my model, too many to list - should write a book but don’t have time for it, nor the skills. But here’s an example of how it works - which happens to be what we are doing now.

A small teacher’s college in my state was originally sited in a very rural location in the early 1900’s. I suppose at the time it was a regional center of activity, but eventually the population centers developed elsewhere, so now the campus is in a village of a few hundred people about 30 miles from the nearest small city. Because of the fairly remote location, a satellite campus was built in 1971 in Espanola and it became a community college, mostly for technical training (much of it related to providing workers for Los Alamos National Lab). The El Rito campus remained open until 2015, when financial pressures, in large part the cost of heating it with propane boilers ($250,000 a year) caused it to be mothballed. El Rito is in a forested area that is in dire need of restorative thinning, it is an unhealthy tinderbox ready to be another Camp Fire, but there is currently no value for the biomass that needs to be removed, and scarce federal or state funding to pay for it.

So along comes Logtroll and The Trollworks - we learn about the situation and come up with a plan to secure a grant to do a pilot project where we will take the worthless biomass and use it to make biochar while heating one of the classroom buildings. Since there is a soils lab on campus, and they have 30 acres of farmland and water rights to go with it, to the project includes curriculum development for the making of biochar and using it in agriculture. And the pilot project building, which used to cost $30,000 a year to heat using fossil fuel, will instead make a “profit” of $20,000 from the biochar “byproduct” while being heated for free - a $50,000 annual revenue swing from a single building! . And the liability biomass in the area will now have a monetary value, which will support the restoration of local federal forests and provide many good jobs.

Because this solution involves a fairly complex integrated community system to be developed, and because it is not a model that makes a simple product intended for distribution and sale through a global network of corporate boxes, it will never even attract the Ogres’ notice. Yet it will have the power to completely transform a weak and vanishing community into a more self sufficient economy, and one that does environmental restoration, helps to wean the world from fossil fuels, draws down CO2 from the atmosphere, and distributes the economic benefit to local people and not multi-national corporations.
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

Top
#315080 - 09/08/19 01:40 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9474
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Continuing the story a bit, once we prove up the concept with the pilot demonstration, and have solid numbers to show how it works, the state of New Mexico, which owns the college and has a yooge vested interest in forest fire prevention, operating cost reduction (free heat) and economic development, is expected to get on the Biochar+Energy train and start converting state buildings at a reasonable clip. The county wherein the pilot is located is already evaluating it's buildings for heating system conversions. And we are in discussions with NM State University regarding heating a large greenhouse, participating in an aquifer cleanup project, and doing more research on the biochar+microbes synergy.

To reiterate, there is little about this complex community systems approach that would fit the standard Corporate Capitalist business model. It doesn't work very well if you just want to manufacture biochar or to make energy for commodities markets.

This is how the Green New Deal should be structured.
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

Top
#315101 - 09/08/19 08:46 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9474
Loc: One of the Mexicos
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

Top
#315106 - 09/08/19 11:07 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8783
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
What do you make of this?


As I understand it, the problem is not the working cooling molten salt breaking down, it's the reaction chamber and plumbing. But I'm a biologist and software engineer, so this kind of physical chemistry is not much in my training. I had a lot of fun in my chemistry classes, but I never went much past the required classes. I did think it was cool that we actually made a drug in my organic chem lab, but it was just sulphonamide.

Top
#315149 - 09/10/19 12:12 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9474
Loc: One of the Mexicos
More on soil health

Quote:
As floods and droughts become more common, farmers, scientists and conservationists are looking for ways to resist. One solution to combating the changing climate starts in the ground. A growing number of states across the country are proposing policies to encourage building healthier agricultural soil, a costly investment for many growers, but one that research shows can benefit farmers and the environment.

Just this year, at least 10 states have introduced new soil management policies that call for further research or data collection, or offer tax exemptions, technical assistance or even grant money to, among other actions, plant cover crops, diversify crop rotations and reduce tillage that can tear apart beneficial fungi.
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

Top
#315151 - 09/10/19 12:43 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 475
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Another thing that will help is to grow a ground cover in the late fall and till it under come the spring. That is something I saw while stationed in Germany. The farmers plowing under the winter cover, some type of a grass; the soil was moist, dark, rich and had a sweet or pleasant smell, and what ever they grew in that field grew fast, tall and healthy looking. For the three years I passed this farm they were growing Tobacco.
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

Top
#315158 - 09/10/19 04:54 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15512
Loc: Florida
Quote:
To reiterate, there is little about this complex community systems approach that would fit the standard Corporate Capitalist business model. It doesn't work very well if you just want to manufacture biochar or to make energy for commodities markets.


To be blunt, if you can't monetize it it won't fly.

But you've already proven that it can save enormous amounts of cash.

So it's more a matter of investing millions upon millions of dollars into a corporation that builds and operates the heating equipment while leasing their services to other entities both state and private as a cheaper method of heating buildings. Seems like you could tack on a steam powered generator to provide electricity too...Who needs weird, dangerous and expensive nuclear energy when we can just burn everything in sight!

I'd suggest you start using post consumer bio-mass as well...Can you turn pig or chicken sh*t into biochar? Lease the equipment to farmers.
Garbage? Waste management companies will beat your doors down...

Everybody needs heat and energy. Biochar is a handy byproduct that will help save the planet. And with the proper lobbying and a USDA requirement of x-tons per acre of certified biochar on all agricultural land per year...
Landfill operators can reduce the volume they need to bury to a fraction while providing electricity to the grid! And sequestering tons of carbon!

Can you make your machine thing gobble waste plastic? Or better yet turn it into a marketable product? That should be a fairly short term effort as most future plastic waste will be made from hemp and be biodegradable.

That's how the green new deal is gonna operate at the corporate level.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
Page 8 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Who's Online
0 registered (), 14 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Snarky_Politics, Moot, Ikari, perotista, ttwtt78640
6282 Registered Users
A2