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RoundTable for February 2019
by pdx rick
50 minutes 56 seconds ago
The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist?
by chunkstyle
Today at 03:40 AM
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by chunkstyle
Today at 03:37 AM
Justice is coming
by Greger
Today at 12:34 AM
The NYC/Amazon Deal
by Greger
Today at 12:06 AM
Political Correctness run amok
by Greger
Yesterday at 06:07 PM
Takeover
by chunkstyle
02/19/19 03:11 PM
The Green New Deal, explained
by pondering_it_all
02/19/19 05:44 AM
Great white sharks likely pushed the massive megalodon to extinction
by Jeffery J. Haas
02/17/19 08:30 PM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2019
by Golem
02/16/19 10:22 PM
Trump's New Toy - NATIONAL EMERGENCY
by NW Ponderer
02/16/19 01:42 AM
Middle East Conference
by jgw
02/15/19 05:35 PM
Epitaphs
by logtroll
02/15/19 01:48 AM
The Twilight Zone - All Openings (1959 - 2002)
by Ken Condon
02/14/19 10:45 PM
Why are Republicans So Afraid of AOC and Omar?
by rporter314
02/14/19 09:05 PM
SMR (Small modular reactor)
by Greger
02/13/19 08:37 PM
A possible run on America?
by jgw
02/13/19 06:54 PM
the guy who used to own starbucks
by jgw
02/13/19 06:47 PM
Healthcare
by jgw
02/13/19 06:43 PM
It can never happen here!
by Greger
02/12/19 10:16 PM
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#310362 - 01/14/19 08:38 AM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8243
Loc: North San Diego County
Agreed: It would be horrible and cause many more problems than it would solve. But out of those millions of pissed off people, there have to be a few who are crazy enough to do it. My point is actually that nobody, not even the President of the US, can get away with pushing people too far. Everybody has a breaking point. For most of us you'd have to murder our children or something similar to get that kind of response, but I know very well that there are people who you just have to look at funny to evoke violence. And they tend to collect guns.

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#310401 - 01/16/19 05:38 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14593
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Why have a report if Guiliani wants to essentially issue a different report?


It'not Guiliani.

Trump's AG nominee has now said he may not release the Mueller report.

Quote:
But Barr, testifying at his confirmation hearing, said that under his interpretation of the special counsel regulations, he didn’t believe that Mueller’s final report was required to be made public. Barr said he believed Mueller’s report would be “confidential,” but that as attorney general he would issue a public summary of its findings.

Barr also said he believed that the attorney general had some “flexibility and discretion” about what he could disclose to the public after the Mueller investigation concluded.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310403 - 01/17/19 12:12 AM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8243
Loc: North San Diego County
Sure, all those things may be true, but they all are meaningless since the Democrats hold the House and their Oversight Committee can subpoena the whole un-redacted report. They can also (and will, to be sure) subpoena Mueller to testify in an open session. If Republicans were still running the House and Senate, then they might have kept it secret. That era is over.

Some people are saying the Justice Department will redact the report and keep it private. Maybe they can do that, but Mueller will be a private citizen when he is done, not a Justice employee. The House can subpoena him and there's not a damned thing Trump or Justice can do about that.

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#310614 - 01/28/19 03:29 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16560
Trump advisers lied over and over again, Mueller says. The question is, why? (WaPo, subscription)

The sheer volume of lying is, of itself, obstruction. The central question is, was it directed? Andbecause so many people have lied, that is a difficult question to answer. There really is no question anymore that Russia directly interfered in the 2016 election, and that it was "somewhat" effective (and probably dispositive). And it is beyond peradventure that the Trump campaign knew of, and exploited their knowledge of, at least some of that interference, which "happened" to coincide with their predisposition to engage in similar tactics. "If it's what I think it is, I love it!"
I think the Mueller investigating devolves into sussing out enough facts to determine the question of whether the coordination was direct, since everyone with Trump lies all the time about everything. Will the cover-up be effective?

Nixon would have been impeached, and George H.W. Bush might have been, had their investigations not been thwarted (by pardons). Mueller's might yet be, as Republicans have developed habits of impunity (to wit: Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Nunes, Bill Barr) and dissembling, so we may never know the answer. But we do know this: something is rotten in the State of our Union.

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#310615 - 01/28/19 03:39 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16560
To the point about the suppressing of the Mueller report, let me add this: as with Iran-Contra, it's about the timing. If they can delay the outcome until the end of Trump's term, they will have, once again, thwarted justice. Trump may be prosecuted after he leaves office, but at this juncture, it is unlikely that impeachment could be completed in time. In the case of Republican methodology, "Justice delayed is Justice denied." And that's just the way they like it.

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#310622 - 01/28/19 09:13 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16560
For the record: 18 U.S. Code § 2 - Principals

(a) Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.
(b) Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal.

18 U.S. Code § 3 - Accessory after the fact

Whoever, knowing that an offense against the United States has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.

Except as otherwise expressly provided by any Act of Congress, an accessory after the fact shall be imprisoned not more than one-half the maximum term of imprisonment or (notwithstanding section 3571) fined not more than one-half the maximum fine prescribed for the punishment of the principal, or both; or if the principal is punishable by life imprisonment or death, the accessory shall be imprisoned not more than 15 years.

Now, does this sound like Anyone we know?

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#310623 - 01/28/19 09:37 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14593
Loc: Florida
Quote:
William Barr: Concerns Over Trump’s Privacy Could Shield Robert Mueller Conclusions
The likely attorney general said prosecutors need “to be sensitive to the privacy and reputational interests of uncharged third parties.”

Just sayin'...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310624 - 01/28/19 10:02 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16560
I'll say again, Bill Barr is singularly unqualified to be Attorney General.

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