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#310506 - 01/22/19 06:53 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2534
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
My suspicion is that there are going to be several spoilers in 2020. Its already starting and the guy who owns Starbucks is planning an independent run and, I suspect, we will see several semi-dems doing the same thing. Their goal is not to win the election but see if they can't corner a bit of the exposure for their cause.

If this happens it just won't make any difference.

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#310509 - 01/22/19 07:47 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1594
Can you explain why it won't make any difference JGW?

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#310513 - 01/22/19 11:55 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: jgw]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15116
Loc: Florida
Quote:
the guy who owns Starbucks is planning an independent run
I've heard Kanye West might run too. But that's all posturing and bullsh*t.

We're gonna have a pretty big field of candidates at first but it'll get whittled down fast. Billionaire CEOs aren't generally known to throw money away at lost causes. It's one of the reasons they don't like paying taxes.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310533 - 01/23/19 08:28 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Greger]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15116
Loc: Florida
Coupla mayors signing up now too....

Democrats are going to start looking foolish when the number of candidates gets into the hundreds.

It's probably going to present a problem for the DNC who would rather stick to the regular formula.(the one where our corporate overlords™ tell them who the candidates should be)

Our Corporate Overlords™...My boogeyman.

You'll blame Neoliberals, Chunks.

We might as well call them the Illuminati.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310535 - 01/23/19 09:08 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2534
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
If there are spoilers from the left they will split the Democratic vote. I also suspect that there will probably be them from the far left that think their candidacy is more important than anything else.

Because spoilers from the left (I know, there is no left) will make sure that the Dems will not win. If that is the case then we got Jackass for another 4 years, Unless, of course, he is got rid of. Even then, the Republicans will put up somebody else with the same wet dreams.

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#310536 - 01/23/19 11:27 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: jgw]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15116
Loc: Florida
Spoilers? You mean "third party" candidates labeling themselves as Democratic Socialists or something?

They have a proven draw of something like .05% of the vote. Democrats can weather that storm. More likely there will be more Millenial Progressives elected to the house in 2020, some of whom will be Democratic Socialists rather than Democrats. Democrats have a much better chance of taking the Senate in 2020 too and you can bet some genuine progressives are going to be running for the available slots.

If Democrats can't field a candidate able to handle third party votes and easily defeat a weakened and unpopular Trump then they simply don't deserve to win the presidency.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310537 - 01/23/19 11:35 PM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1594
Originally Posted By: Greger
Spoilers? You mean "third party" candidates labeling themselves as Democratic Socialists or something?

They have a proven draw of something like .05% of the vote. Democrats can weather that storm. More likely there will be more Millenial Progressives elected to the house in 2020, some of whom will be Democratic Socialists rather than Democrats. Democrats have a much better chance of taking the Senate in 2020 too and you can bet some genuine progressives are going to be running for the available slots.

If Democrats can't field a candidate able to handle third party votes and easily defeat a weakened and unpopular Trump then they simply don't deserve to win the presidency.


but.. but..
Russia!

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#310540 - 01/24/19 12:07 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15116
Loc: Florida
2016 was a fluke. Nobody but nobody saw it coming.

If US voters decide that racism and bigotry, nationalism, white supremacy, antisemitism, homophobia and the destruction of democratic principles are the most important policies for the US Government to pursue then probably we are doomed. As a nation, as a civilization, and as a species.

We gave them the rope, they hung themselves. Now it's time for Democrats to start cleaning up the mess again.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310542 - 01/24/19 01:34 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14002
Loc: Whittier, California
The difference is, once Bernie got blown out of the primary, a lot of liberals like myself heeded his advice and reluctantly pulled the HRC lever in the POTUS elections.

Today, it looks as if the RNC is intent on CANCELING the 2020 primaries altogether.

RAW STORY

You know, seeing as how that rotten little homunculus Steven Miller has been poisoning every single compromise offer to reopen the government and end the shutdown, and seeing as how he appears to now be the only adviser who still has Trump's ear, is it possible that Steven Miller might also be the driving force behind pushing the RNC up against the wall and demanding total fealty by canceling the 2020 primaries?

Don't forget, one of his first acts of office was to intone that "the powers of the President shall not be questioned".



I mean, that comment, coming as it did from that dead-eyed sophomoric little toady, even eclipsed Karl Rove's heel clicking by a mile:



Quote:
"We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you are studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors, and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."


My point is, a lot of conservatives will refuse to vote for Trump now that this stunt got pulled. Some inventive conservatives will run as third party, and they will siphon off enough votes to cause Trump to be utterly destroyed.

_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#310543 - 01/24/19 02:15 AM Re: The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1594
So long as the center right avoids comprehending the anger out here and continues with it's constant ridiculing and shaming over the misdirected targeting of that anger they will struggle for relevancy more and more.
You want to support the party that supports the idea of people supporting a position, by all means do so and remain a spent political force of legitimacy that the corporate oriented Democratic Party represents.
The more it continues hectoring for loyalty oaths and purity promises while actively denying a left option the more they will alienate their traditional base. They can't win it with lanyard people and those that want to identify with lanyard people alone.
The left has real, direct tangible ideas that aren't couched with plausible deniability after the elections are over.
It was so much easier to bicker over gay marriage or women serving in the armed services with the hard right. So much harder to demand a 70% marginal tax on billionaires so that we might fund the public space and the possibility of organized human existence in the face of environmental collapse, etc.. It didn't costs the people who bought their congressional seats anything.
But hey, I digress.
America.... It's already great!




Edited by chunkstyle (01/24/19 02:28 AM)

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