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#310308 - 01/11/19 03:15 PM Collusion has now been shown. What now?
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17089
The leak of Manafort's response filing demonstrates, without peradventure, that "the Trump campaign" was colluding with Russia during the election. Where does it go from here?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#310315 - 01/11/19 08:02 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15434
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Where does it go from here?


First there is denial.....after that, more denial. Then anger. And more denial.

But accusations haven't been made yet, at least in the form of indictments and such. With Rosenstein leaving there will be no firewall to protect Mueller's investigation. Trump's acting AG can shut it down or see to it that portions of it never see the light of day. The House of Reps can subpoena the documents but Trump has shown no qualms with refusing to cooperate.

Republicans see Trump as a victim, not as a criminal.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310316 - 01/11/19 08:35 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8771
Loc: North San Diego County
I don't think the AG has any sort of immunity to indictment or subpoenas from courts or the House. Whoever he (or she) is, is going to be in danger of arrest and imprisonment for contempt if they resist appearing, refuse to supply documents, or refuse to testify. Trump's supposed immunity does not extend to any other employee of the Executive Branch. The courts are going to side with the House, because one of the Legislative Branch's constitutional responsibilities is to oversee the Executive Branch. An Executive Branch that is entirely immune from congressional oversight is not a republic: It is a dictatorship.

The House investigating committees will get everything Mueller has. Trump has no control over that. For that matter, as soon as Trump's fake National Emergency gets into court it will be shut down. Judges like real facts, not made up BS. Even conservative judges.

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#310317 - 01/11/19 08:50 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15434
Loc: Florida
You seem to have a great deal more faith in the courts and government doing the right thing than I do.
In normal times you'd be right. These aren't normal times.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310319 - 01/11/19 11:15 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6836
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Always go to the fundamentals.

Originally Posted By: wiki
collusion

n. where two persons (or business entities through their officers or other employees) enter into a deceitful agreement, usually secret, to defraud and/or gain an unfair advantage over a third party, competitors, consumers or those with whom they are negotiating.


I am not sure THAT definition applies to this scenario.

Originally Posted By: Merriam-Webster
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

That sounds like it but it does not appear to be illegal.

Originally Posted By: Law.com
conspiracy

n. when people work together by agreement to commit an illegal act.

I think that is the definition everyone is looking for. Now the question is, was anything these folks did illegal?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#310321 - 01/12/19 03:28 AM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8771
Loc: North San Diego County
Pretty much everything.

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#310326 - 01/12/19 03:51 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Kaine Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Pennsylvania
Trump team should be allowed to ‘correct’ final Mueller report, says Giuliani
Quote:
Rudy Giuliani says President Trump's legal team should be allowed to "correct" special counsel Robert Mueller's final report before Congress or the American people get the chance to read it.

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#310327 - 01/12/19 03:53 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15434
Loc: Florida
Rudy Giuliani has now said that Trump's team should get a chance to "correct" the Mueller report before congress or the public see it.

Outrageous? Maybe. But it's what I'm talking about. With a complicit Justice Department, Congress, and the fecking Supreme Court filled with sycophants this could really happen.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310328 - 01/12/19 04:34 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15434
Loc: Florida
Quote:
An Executive Branch that is entirely immune from congressional oversight is not a republic: It is a dictatorship.

And do you imagine that Donald John Trump, his loyal base, Complicit Senate, and Supreme Court filled with sycophants has any problem with a single party government and an authoritarian president?

These guys whack off at night thinking of single party governments and authoritarian presidents. In Trump's case it's pictures of shirtless Vlad Puto.

Republicans have shown that they have no problems at all with racism, bigotry, lies, corruption, rape, murder and mayhem as long as it brings more power to Republicans. Their president can absolutely do no wrong in their eyes!

The most amazing thing about this is that all the things we find abhorrent about Donald Trump and the Republican Party is what Republicans in general admire about them most.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310329 - 01/12/19 04:52 PM Re: Collusion has now been shown. What now? [Re: Kaine]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6836
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Why have a report if Guiliani wants to essentially issue a different report?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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