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The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist?
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President Mean Girl
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GOP corruption and cheating is beyond the pale
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09/12/19 08:09 AM
The Green New Deal, explained
by Greger
09/10/19 04:54 PM
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#310287 - 01/10/19 04:07 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1621
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


70% marginal tax rate on the rich making over $10m a year? Yes, please. smile


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#310292 - 01/10/19 09:10 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I am all for taxing the very rich. I can remember when we were taxing them over 80%! (those were the good old times - 1940's) Now, with this and that, I doubt they pay much more than 10% to 15% max.

As far as the green new deal is concerned. It would seem, at least on the face of it, that there is absolutely no plans to watch the national debt (quite to the contrary, in fact). This stuff, eventually, needs to be paid off. Right now we aren't paying it off. We are just paying interest on it. The interest alone, right now, is more than we spend on our military! If we keep on raising it then, pretty soon, there will be absolutely no money left for good works as it will ALL go to paying the interest on the debt. To suggest that adding to debt, to do good works, and not worrying about the debt, is a good idea can get us into a LOT of trouble.

Just saying...........

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#310299 - 01/11/19 02:13 AM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
Post WWII we were paying a top rate of 93%, and it was one of the most prosperous periods in our history! We need to rethink the whole "lower taxes, improve the economy" idea. Income inequality does NOT improve the economy. Lowering taxes on corporations and the rich only makes that worse.

Even the original Laffer Curve stuff said that if you lower taxes, the government collects more (up to a point). But note that it didn't ever say "lower taxes and improve the economy". It just makes rich people richer, and takes away government services the poor need. The only "trickle-down" you feel on your head is some rich guy pissing on you. Which is exactly what the Trump tax cut did and will do in the future to Social Security and Medicare.

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#310303 - 01/11/19 06:11 AM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14172
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Post WWII we were paying a top rate of 93%, and it was one of the most prosperous periods in our history! We need to rethink the whole "lower taxes, improve the economy" idea. Income inequality does NOT improve the economy. Lowering taxes on corporations and the rich only makes that worse.

Even the original Laffer Curve stuff said that if you lower taxes, the government collects more (up to a point). But note that it didn't ever say "lower taxes and improve the economy". It just makes rich people richer, and takes away government services the poor need. The only "trickle-down" you feel on your head is some rich guy pissing on you. Which is exactly what the Trump tax cut did and will do in the future to Social Security and Medicare.


I'm pretty sure our filthy rich wound up keeping quite a bit of their money back then.

I remember meeting my very first millionaire when I was a little kid. (circa 1961)
His name was Jessie York and he owned a manufacturing company that made the finest sheets and pillows money could buy back then.
He owned a very large yacht called "The Four Queens", a couple of Rolls-Royces, a Ferrari, a couple of stretch Caddy limos, a couple of airplanes and he had a home "in the City - NYC" and a vast beachside luxury villa out in Atlantic Beach, Long Island.
He and his family were friends with my uncle, a somewhat famous marlin and tuna fisherman.

This would have been 1961, when people like the Yorks were paying those 80 and 90 percent marginal tax rates.
I guarantee you Jessie York was enjoying PLENTY of his "fat stacks o'cash".

Marginal tax rates tax only the very last few bucks in a rich person's income at that high rate. The vast majority of what they have is taxed at a much lower rate. It's "taxing ON the MARGINS".
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#310304 - 01/11/19 08:20 AM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
That's the way the graduated income tax has always worked. If we had a 93% maximum rate today, it would probably only apply to income over 10 million dollars. The first 10 million would be taxed at a lower rate. But you have to think about a factory owner with 100 million profit to spend every year. That 93% rate would give him a strong incentive to pay his employees a bigger piece of the pie rather than give it to the IRS. That's a good way to even out income inequality.

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#310341 - 01/12/19 09:37 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14172
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
That's the way the graduated income tax has always worked. If we had a 93% maximum rate today, it would probably only apply to income over 10 million dollars. The first 10 million would be taxed at a lower rate. But you have to think about a factory owner with 100 million profit to spend every year. That 93% rate would give him a strong incentive to pay his employees a bigger piece of the pie rather than give it to the IRS. That's a good way to even out income inequality.


I heard that it would apply to sixteen thousand households. Big whoop.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#310342 - 01/12/19 11:31 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1621
It is predicted by 2030 that the richest 1% will have 2/3 of all global wealth.
Jeff Bezo's making 20 million/hr. I just paid my property tax. My money will help pay for the 5 billion the state is giving Bezos to build his super terrific warehouse. My state taxes my house and shop. Bezo's worth is estimated at over 200 billion. One assh@le that needed to be hectored to raise the pay of his employees from 12 to 15/hr so they don't have to live off food stamps and heating assistance.
It's a very big deal. One of the biggest in the western world right now Jeff.

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#310348 - 01/13/19 09:30 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
We should outlaw cities and states bribing companies with tax breaks, at the federal level. I think it's clearly a violation of equal treatment under the law, so unconstitutional. But you have to outlaw it everywhere, so no state has an advantage. Get rid of "Opportunity Zones" too, for the same reason.

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#310364 - 01/14/19 03:30 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1621
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
We should outlaw cities and states bribing companies with tax breaks, at the federal level. I think it's clearly a violation of equal treatment under the law, so unconstitutional. But you have to outlaw it everywhere, so no state has an advantage. Get rid of "Opportunity Zones" too, for the same reason.


That would be a great start.

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#310375 - 01/15/19 01:54 PM Re: The Green New Deal, explained [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9290
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
The Green New Deal, explained (Vox). This is a lengthy piece, but really explains the genesis and guts of the "Green New Deal". The short form: 1) The plan must decarbonize the economy; 2) The plan must include a federal jobs guarantee and large-scale public investments; and, 3) The plan must include a just transition.

The question of growth in the Green New Deal
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