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#310414 - 01/17/19 04:51 PM It is time to consider impeachment
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17001
I recently read the Atlantic article on the subject, Impeach Donald Trump, and it gave me a completely different perspective on the subject. The point made is that Congress is where the debate should be had, not the press, or the internet, or the water cooler.

Article II, Section 1, clause 8 of the Constitution specifies,
Quote:
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Thats the ultimate question, isn't it? Has Donald Trump violated that oath? Not in little ways, mind you. I'm not quibbling about policy choices, but fundamentally, on balance, has he done more to support or undermine the Constitution itself?

The place to consider that question must be Congress, and, more specifically, the House of Representatives. Donald Trump has been a singular figure in the presidency, and this is not an issue to be taken lightly, but isn't it really time to call the question? He has been cavalier about policy, attacked the institutions of government, appointed incompetent and corrupt stewards, and even brought the government to a halt on a whim rather than principle (nevermind numerous, probable violations of law). Doesn't that demonstrate the opposite of "preserve, protect and defend"?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#310416 - 01/17/19 05:39 PM Re: It is time to consider impeachment [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 443
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
President Donald (Coward, Racist, Traitor-in-Chief) Trump should be impeached (I disagree. Why? The last sentence), this way the American People will hear all the evidence discovered by the various congressional committees and the charges brought by Special Prosecutor Mueller. HOWEVER! The Senate should not find him guilt. Why? The voters need to repudiate him and all he stands for to the world, proving the American System of Government does work and can withstand the occasional Trumpian being elected
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#310417 - 01/17/19 05:46 PM Re: It is time to consider impeachment [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
If those who were elected are honest, objective representatives of the People.

Your exhortation for an honest debate in Congress is akin to Joe Public wailing in front of a stone obelisk praying for rain. Yes that was the intent of the Founders and No it ain't gonna happen.

We are down to both the first and last resort to redress malignant mutations in the electoral process. If you don't like the bum, vote him out of office. If the Constitution can not force Congress to do its job, vote him out of office.

We are far beyond the normal. We are experiencing our last resort, so be prepared.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#310423 - 01/18/19 12:39 AM Re: It is time to consider impeachment [Re: Ujest Shurly]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15327
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The voters need to repudiate him and all he stands for to the world, proving the American System of Government does work and can withstand the occasional Trumpian being elected


Impeachment is still okay. If the House Impeaches, the Senate will not convict. Then in 2020 the voters get to kick them all out of office.

We'll soon see what Mueller has got and then things can really get rolling. The Old Post Office lease is an interesting scandal in the making too. It seems that government simply chose to ignore the Constitution on that one..
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310424 - 01/18/19 01:48 AM Re: It is time to consider impeachment [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
If 2020 is a total rout, it may be the time we can get some much-need amendments passed. Like some rules about gerrymandering, big money in politics, defining the powers and limitations of the President, the Speaker, and the leader of the Senate majority.

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#310436 - 01/18/19 03:00 PM Re: It is time to consider impeachment [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Buzzfeed last night ... Mr Trump suborned perjury


I believe that is an offense which more than qualifies as impeachable. Whether, (should Rep Pelosi moves forward on filing charges), it is enough to persuade Senate Republicans to convict ... just consider Pres Clinton's impeachment trial for context and a peek at what lies ahead
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#310437 - 01/18/19 03:19 PM Re: It is time to consider impeachment [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14185
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Buzzfeed last night ... Mr Trump suborned perjury


I believe that is an offense which more than qualifies as impeachable. Whether, (should Rep Pelosi moves forward on filing charges), it is enough to persuade Senate Republicans to convict ... just consider Pres Clinton's impeachment trial for context and a peek at what lies ahead


It is also remarkable to note that this is not a WaPo or NYT headline, it is...BUZZFEED.

BUZZFEED???

Are the major newspapers so terrified of this Individual 1 that they no longer have the courage to supply Americans with the facts that they need to make informed decisions about their elected leaders?

So, the exalted mainstream media giants bend over backwards to pretend that there is some sort of "equal" weight to paid trolling and weaponized Republican denialism. They hold back, and tread lightly while a tiny online publication forges ahead.

I think we've just witnessed that infamous "jump the shark" moment for our formerly "established" major media empire.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#310444 - 01/18/19 05:10 PM Re: It is time to consider impeachment [Re: rporter314]
Kaine Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 2166
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: rporter314
just consider Pres Clinton's impeachment trial for context and a peek at what lies ahead


Even though no politicians are hypocritical[/sarc] as we know Clinton was a Democrat, Trump is a Republican. Do you really think they would see them both in the same light? I know better.

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#310447 - 01/18/19 06:24 PM Re: It is time to consider impeachment [Re: Kaine]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I think a study of the voting in Pres Clinton's impeachment trial would offer an insight to how Senators would vote.

I suspect most Republicans would consider an obstruction charge as just another example of the "deep state" attacking Mr Trump. If the House does file charges, they better have more than he is obnoxious and he may have obstructed.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#310448 - 01/18/19 08:35 PM Re: It is time to consider impeachment [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
Suborning perjury before Congress is a little hard for Congress to ignore. The whole concept of Congress investigating and providing executive oversight collapses if you let people get away with perjury in their testimony or telling their lawyers to commit perjury. Members of Congress do have a bit of loyalty to the integrity of the Legislative Branch, or else why are they even their? Most of these guys could be making a lot more that $174K per year working other jobs.

At some point they have to decide Trump is done defecating on their heads.

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