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#310435 - 01/18/19 12:58 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41577
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
CNN is reporting Trump ordered Cohen to lie to Congress:

Trump Told Michael Cohen To Lie

Yup big story when I woke-up this morning. Missed all of the news last night - no TV at all.

(Somebody did his taxes last night and has filed electronically already. gobsmacked , coffee)
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#310441 - 01/18/19 04:44 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16999
From the Washington Post story citing BuzzFeed:
Quote:
Barr, who was previously attorney general under President George H.W. Bush, left little doubt about his views in an unsolicited memo addressed to the Justice Department last year. Made public by the Wall Street Journal in December, the 20-page document criticized Mueller for apparently focusing on actions that Barr claimed did not constitute obstruction, such as firing government employees.

But Barr was clear about what he called criminal obstruction in the “classic sense” — “sabotaging a proceeding’s truth-finding function." In his June 2018 memo, the attorney and member of the Republican Party laid out acts amounting to obstruction: “Thus, for example, if a President knowingly destroys or alters evidence, suborns perjury, or induces a witness to change testimony, or commits any act deliberately impairing the integrity or availability of evidence, then he, like anyone else, commits the crime of obstruction.”
It is ironic that William Barr would make that statement, since that is exactly what he counseled George Bush to do when he was last Attorney general. Barr is completely unsuited to be Attorney General because he, himself, suborned obstruction by advising Bush to pardon the Iran-contra conspirators on his way out of office. That meets Barr's own definition of obstruction! Bush could/should have been prosecuted for that abuse of power, since he had already been implicated in the conspiracy. Although I genuinely liked and respected the elder Bush, that final act was deeply offensive - and illegal. If Bush had been prosecuted, it would put a whole different face on the current peril we are in. Barr is directly responsible for Trump.

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#310443 - 01/18/19 05:04 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I have to concur on the Iran-Contra pardon's. Perhaps one of the most disgusting and distasteful acts in America government. It would not matter to me if it was their guy or my guy, the act was unconscionable. I reject any argument which characterizes it as government saving. The American people need to know there is integrity in government and we do follow the rule of law, for all men equally.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#310450 - 01/18/19 10:11 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15327
Loc: Florida
Quote:
American people need to know there is integrity in government and we do follow the rule of law, for all men equally.


You'd be hard put to convince most Americans that there is integrity in government and that we follow the rule of law...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310458 - 01/19/19 05:46 AM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41577
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


BuzzFeed is taking heat because of Mueller's office's response to BuzzFeed's story. NOTE: It took Mueller's office 20 hrs to respond:

Quote:
President Donald Trump directed his longtime attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about negotiations to build a Trump Tower in Moscow, according to two federal law enforcement officials involved in an investigation of the matter.

Trump also supported a plan, set up by Cohen, to visit Russia during the presidential campaign, in order to personally meet President Vladimir Putin and jump-start the tower negotiations. “Make it happen,” the sources said Trump told Cohen.

Mueller's office has not stated specifically what is wrong in their carefully worded denial of BuzzFeed's article.

BuzzFeed also broke the Steele Dossier story - two years ago. Let's see how well the Steele Dossier has held up now two years after the fact:

Quote:
The dossier holds up well over time, and none of it, to our knowledge, has been disproven.

- LawFareBlog.com 12/14/18


I'm going to stay on Team BuzzFeed. smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#310461 - 01/19/19 08:42 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8731
Loc: North San Diego County
Buzzfeed probably has some details wrong, but is mostly correct. Notice that Mueller's spokesman did not say the whole thing is wrong. Just like the most sensational (and unimportant) parts of the dossier have not been proved: Their is still independently documented evidence in it that shows a pattern of criminality. If the subject was anybody but the President, he would have been prosecuted under RICO long ago.

And even if Trump did not tell Cohen to lie, Cohen surely made up a false narrative and told it to everyone. Trump most likely used that false narrative in his written answers to Mueller. Then Cohen came clean to the Grand Jury, to get his sentence deal. And we are left with Trump committing perjury in writing, shown by Cohen's testimony and multiple emails and documents in Mueller's possession. I'm sure that Trump is very much a practitioner of "let's get our stories straight before we go to court" from his past court appearances.

Cohen is a rat because he changed his story after getting everyone to use his false narrative.

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#310466 - 01/20/19 08:08 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15327
Loc: Florida
And the story might have been completely fabricated. Trump derangement syndrome is alive and well in the media.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#310469 - 01/20/19 08:41 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The problem, I think, has to do with frustration over the Mueller investigation. Its been a long time and nothing seems to be happening. I think a lot of pressure would be released if they could hand down another bunch of charges. Everytime we hear that Jackass has pissed off yet another ally, insulted another group, kiss the ring of Putin, etc. folks tend to get a bit upset and just want it to stop. Now we are in a shutdown with no end in site.

The obvious solution is for the congress, the WHOLE congress, forgets the politics and starts to pass veto proof legislation and, for the at happen, the Republicans need to step up. If that doesn't happen then this thing can go on forever. Perhaps the senate should be advised that this is the way, in theory, that the founders designed the system. Right now, however, we are told that McConnell is at fault. He is just the face. The simple fact is that the Republican simply cannot bring themselves to do the right thing. This, in spite of the continuous reports that the senate Republicans would be delighted to do as I suggest except for McConnell. That is, I think, simple balony. They can do this thing if they grown a pair and stiffen their backbones.

As I understand it anybody in the senate can actually bring legislation to the floor if they have the votes. In spite of all the balony the fact remains - the members simply do not have the stomach for it. Sorry, as far as I can tell these craven simply don't have the stomach to act like members of the congress instead of the members of the afraid of the Dear Leader club.

None of this is going to end well. ALL members of the senate are very close to ALL being painted with the obstructionist paintbrush. Perhaps they might act when people start dying because of a lack of food inspections, very tired air controllers or pilots, etc. Even then, I suspect, they will continue with the games until folks REALLY get a bit upset. Right now it seems that the populace know what is going on and have come to the conclusion its just the way it is <sigh>

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#310473 - 01/20/19 10:25 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: Greger]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I don't know how many news orgs would double down on a story which is patently false. Their creds would be completely wiped out and of course may go bankrupt.

Buzzfeed did that just today. They stood by their story.

Curious minds want to know the truth .... the facts ...
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#310475 - 01/20/19 11:44 PM Re: Justice is coming [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2556
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
This is a pretty strange deal. Mueller never said it wasn't true just that some of the facts were wrong. Have no idea what any of it means but, as usual and over time, we will figure it out. In this case, unless Mueller changes his mind, it will be after he has done all he can, I guess.

I also wonder if them that gave the story to Buzzfeed will ever be revealed.........

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