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#313860 - 08/15/19 10:30 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15318
Loc: Florida
My plan for years has been to crush the Republican Party then start in on the Democrats. 2020 is looking like an excellent chance for the former and advances by social democrats are making the latter seem more attainable.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313875 - 08/16/19 01:05 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14174
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
My plan for years has been to crush the Republican Party then start in on the Democrats. 2020 is looking like an excellent chance for the former and advances by social democrats are making the latter seem more attainable.



Thank you! S'what I've been trying to say!
First, we extricate ourselves from this largely self-inflicted prison, marginalize the GOP for a generation and while that's moldering, we start remaking the Democrats back into the Left party they're supposed to be again.

We HAVE the blueprint on how it's done, the Tea Party did it to the Republicans starting in 2010. In two or three years time the Tea Party WAS the Republican Party.

Now, of course we need to be SMARTER than they are, which means we don't bring in a bunch of clowns like they did, but the mechanism works, we saw it work.

Buh-bye Chuck Schumer, buh-bye all the rest of you establisment neoliberal peter puffers.

Pelosi already indicated that she's probably going to make this term her swan song, so there's that.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313876 - 08/16/19 02:31 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15318
Loc: Florida
In both cases it's a matter of patience and giving them enough rope to hang themselves. Interesting note on hangings...rope length was an important calculation for hangmen. Too short and the hangee dangled there kicking their legs as they strangled. Too long and it ripped their heads right off and made an awful mess. When the Republicans finally hit bottom in 2020 it's gonna be one of the messy ones.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313881 - 08/16/19 03:30 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1622
A wish is not a plan.

Republicans dont give tenure to their representatives nor blacklist anyone with the gall to challenge them in the primary.

What exactly is the plan to overcome Democrats imposed obstacles to electing progressives? Electing tenured Democrats?

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#313884 - 08/16/19 04:01 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15318
Loc: Florida
It's all about the rope, little buddy!

The rope. When 70% of the voters are in favor of something(living wage etc) but 70% of the politicians are against it then you've got an opportunity for change.
We're on the brink of generational change.

I can smell it in the air. Like a breathe of fall.

Change.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313903 - 08/16/19 03:23 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1622
I think you'd hard put to show any evidence of popular support of policy and political legislation. Public support has had almost no impact for decades now.
Capital on the other hand....

So since the "whats your plan?' question has been made as a qualifier of the accuracy of observation and criticism of the existing political situation, I'll have to ask you again, what is the plan?

Admittedly, I agree with allowing the Democrats to hang themselves but I don't think It'll happen in 2020. They'll run a "We can't afford 4 more years' and push Biden out in front of voters. No ideas, no solutions to some of these overwhelming problems. Trump wins.
May pick up more in the house. But I draw your attention to the imposed obstacles of electing progressives.

I don't see how 'give em enough rope' will make any change within the Democratic party with the current party structural situation.


Edited by chunkstyle (08/16/19 03:24 PM)

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#313913 - 08/16/19 07:27 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15318
Loc: Florida
Plan is out the window if Biden is elected. Long term result between Biden and Trump are almost identical. Because neo-librals. I'd shoot myself right now if I believed Biden couldn't be beaten by Warren or Sanders.

Re-configuration of the Democratic Party can only begin in earnest after they are in power. AOC will be the defacto voice of the House if not, in fact, the Speaker. The Squad is going to grow in numbers as a few lefty white guys and maybe a lesbian of color get swept in with the anti-Trump wave. In the near future they are going to be the cool kids on the block and hanging with them is going to get you headlines, donors and votes. They will pull moderates leftward and embolden others to step to the left.

The Senate will flip with a progressive candidate but not necessarily if it's Biden. Don't even ask me why I think this but I do.

Party bosses won't be happy but there is a political wind blowing and they can choose to go with it or against it. They've been tacking against it for some time but after a while beating your way upwind becomes impossible.

But this scenario depends entirely on a progressive candidate winning.

FOX News polls are showing Trump losing badly against any of the top 4 candidates. The only possible reason to vote for Biden is rapidly going away.

Change. Can you smell it?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#313914 - 08/16/19 07:37 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14174
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Plan is out the window if Biden is elected. Long term result between Biden and Trump are almost identical. Because neo-librals. I'd shoot myself right now if I believed Biden couldn't be beaten by Warren or Sanders.

Re-configuration of the Democratic Party can only begin in earnest after they are in power. AOC will be the defacto voice of the House if not, in fact, the Speaker. The Squad is going to grow in numbers as a few lefty white guys and maybe a lesbian of color get swept in with the anti-Trump wave. In the near future they are going to be the cool kids on the block and hanging with them is going to get you headlines, donors and votes. They will pull moderates leftward and embolden others to step to the left.

The Senate will flip with a progressive candidate but not necessarily if it's Biden. Don't even ask me why I think this but I do.

Party bosses won't be happy but there is a political wind blowing and they can choose to go with it or against it. They've been tacking against it for some time but after a while beating your way upwind becomes impossible.

But this scenario depends entirely on a progressive candidate winning.

FOX News polls are showing Trump losing badly against any of the top 4 candidates. The only possible reason to vote for Biden is rapidly going away.

Change. Can you smell it?


Biden is four monster gaffes, maybe even three, away from conceding to Liz Warren. I don't mean that I think he will give a concession speech...I mean she's going to beat the pants off him as he tries in vain to get the marbles in his mouth to sync up with the neo-liberal marbles in his head.

And Liz "has a plan for that".
No really, Liz Has a Plan for That!

Warren Has a Plan For That

It's growing legs!
Biden? He doesn't have a plan for anything except

"The 1990's - - Lather Rinse Repeat"

And it's going to ultimately fall flat.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#313915 - 08/16/19 09:45 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1622
Biden - Our Best Days Still Lie Ahead
Warren- Warren Has A Plan For That
Sanders- Not Me, Us
Trump- Keep America Great Again

Hmmmmm......

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#313998 - 08/19/19 07:02 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15318
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Biden - Our Best Days Still Lie Ahead
Warren- Warren Has A Plan For That
Sanders- Not Me, Us
Trump- Keep America Great Again

Hmmmmm......


Okay.....based on that, I like the one who has a plan. I want the new CEO of the USA to hit the ground running in January of 2021. It's going to be a bloodbath. Government will be topsy turvey with the progressive takeover and immediate action will need to take place. The battleground will be covered with corpses and crows picking them clean. The house has hundreds of bills and resolutions ready to be flushed through a compliant senate.
I want a mind that's quick and nimble, one that is versed in law. If we take her message to heart, she has already done the research as a US Senator and knows what needs to be tweaked to get the pressure off the US workforce. What Trump promised but didn't ever have a plan for.
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