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#310886 - 02/12/19 08:30 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2633
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
As far as I can tell anybody who is not a fan of Israel is now being painted, by the media, as being anti-jew. I think the two are not that inextricably entwined and I know several Jews in that camp (anti Israel). I couldn't care less if somebody is a Jew or not. I do not have the same attitude about Israel. Felt that way ever since they sunk one of ours and then machine gunned the survivors in the water, gun down a man who was protecting his child from Israeli soldiers killing everything in sight and then there was the bulldozing of an American lefty trying to stop the destruction of somebody's home.

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#310901 - 02/13/19 03:56 AM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15737
Loc: Florida
Quote:
As far as I can tell anybody who is not a fan of Israel is now being painted, by the media, as being anti-jew.


That dog won't hunt. There's too many liberal Jews that think Netanyahu is a tin pot dictator.

The neo-nazi wing of the Republican party is really about the only real anti-Jew group.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#310906 - 02/13/19 08:25 AM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8930
Loc: North San Diego County
There's a big difference between being anti-Zionist and being anti-Semitic. One is about Israel's foreign policy and the other is about Jews and Arabs. Israel's foreign policy sucks and plenty of Jews all over the world believe that. Zionists want you to believe their cause is religious, but it's not.

I'm not a Jew, but I have been to Passover Seders and read from the Torah along with every other adult there.

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#310919 - 02/13/19 06:57 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2633
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I am no longer sure that anti-Zionist and anti-Israel are the same thing. The first, I think, is a religious thing and the other thing not. Could be wrong though....................

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#311004 - 02/17/19 07:51 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14588
Loc: Whittier, California
Borrowed from elsewhere, I couldn't say it better myself:

Quote:
"The tribalism of American politics has turned any and all debate about Israel into a dogmatic nightmare.

1)The prime mover for Republican support for Israel is the end-times prophecy of the Dominionist movement, who view the Jewish people themselves as "unperfected Christians", and therefore, for them, this is really about real estate and ultimately about their own professed dreams of ethnic cleansing.

2)Israel's problems in handling the Palestian issue are doomed. Their policy on this matter is indefensible, and is a solid reason why much criticism on that front is merited and fair.

3)Largely the same for the Palestinians, who are themselves indefensible.

4)Israel is nevertheless still the most stable democracy in the entire middle east and a worthy regional ally in spite of #2.

5)Democrats have, thanks to their own tribalism, allowed themselves to unwittingly align with anti-semitics causes and to use anti-semitic language.

6)Omar Ilhan's initial statements were absolutely anti-semitic.

But if you're an American in support of either major party, you're forced to choose between two extremist and indefensible positions.
If you say that you support an Israeli state, you're accused of standing behind the most anti-Palestinian positions possible.

If instead you say that Palestinians should have their own state, you're now accused of supporting those who want the Jews driven into the sea and killed."
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#311005 - 02/17/19 08:18 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14588
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer

Let me ask this, though: does anyone not think that Sheldon Adelson has an outsized influence in conservative politics? Is it because he is Jewish, or because of his Benjamins?


Jewish DNA? Yes. Jewish from a faith or cultural perspective?
He's about as Jewish, in that regard, as a bacon wrapped Hebrew National chili cheese dog.

Hatred of Adelson's agenda has nothing to do with his being a Jew.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#311009 - 02/17/19 08:51 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17182
I beg to quibble, my friend, about the non-Jewish agenda of Adelson. Yes, his OTHER agenda items are also reprehensible, but he is a fervent advocate for the most extreme policies of Israel. Because I am not Jewish, I was, perhaps, as ignorant of "Jewish tropes" as Omar, because I did not, and do not, see them as anti-Semitic. It is, I think, because she is Muslim that they are given that presumption.

Now, I will admit, that I presume the right wing attacks on Tom Steyer and George Soros are anti-Semitic, but mostly because of the verbiage and follow-through by alt-right fanatics. Similarly, I do not give Trump the benefit of the doubt because of his other racist views and demagoguery.

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#311020 - 02/18/19 03:53 AM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8930
Loc: North San Diego County
We all need to be more careful with the language here. Semites include most Jews and Arabs, so "anti-Semitism" is about hating both sides of the Israel-Palestine conflict. That's why I have been using Zionist to describe the Jewish-state side and Palestinian to describe the other.

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#311024 - 02/18/19 12:11 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17182
I fear, my friend, "You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is 'never get involved in a land war in Asia'". The use of the term antisemitism has, as far as I am aware, always applied to Judaism exclusively. It was, according to the source cited above (Wikipedia), deliberately misused by the Third Reich to confuse its meaning, a confusion compounded by its modern linguistic use - referring to the speakers of "semitic" languages. I don't think it is intended to express language-hate.

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#311025 - 02/18/19 12:21 PM Re: Political Correctness run amok [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17182
I think another trap we have all fallen into is the "lack of context" trap. Agitators of all stripes like this one for its efficacy. Take a statement "out of context" and it can be twisted in all kinds of ways (just ask James O'Keefe). Twitter, of course, is the perfect medium to exploit this attack. (Apparently, so are yearbooks.)

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